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Marcus Miller is 100% right!

#42
That's funny that you posted that because some friends and I actually had a conversation about that exact clip.

I've watched the whole interview and have nothing but respect and admiration for Marcus and the things he's accomplished in his prolific career. That being said, I do disagree about what he's saying when it comes to writing for your instrument.

And let me just lead by saying this is just my opinion.
I think "writing for your instrument" is how we got to everyone and their mother mindlessly slapping away on open strings (usually in E) to try and sound cool. And I think that 'cool' should never be the primary goal. Making music that's "good" (whatever that means to you) should always take priority over music that is cool or novel. There's possibility for overlap between good and cool, but it's a fine line.

I get so fatigued hearing another bass album with generic slap bass that it bums me out. But when I hear bass play a beautiful simple melody over some well-thought-out chords then it really catches my ear. Not because it's a bass playing it, but because it's a good melody.

I'm not saying all slap bass is bad. It's a bold creative choice and works perfectly when the song (rarely) calls for it.

I just think "writing for the instrument" is how we get to guitarists overusing the whammy bar and wah pedal, bassists overusing slap, and drummers overusing double bass pedals. Obviously you have to know the limitations of an instrument when composing for it, but I don't think that's what Marcus is talking about.

I don't want to hear good slap bass playing, I want to hear good music.

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox.
 
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#43
So, I think what's getting lost in the brevity of this clip is the idea writing and playing for the instrument for the song.

The point he is trying to convey cannot be conveyed in a brief youtube clip with a couple of licks.

Marcus sorta shredded something a little bit dissonant in the clips juxtaposted with his comments. I'm sure it worked for whatever song he was talking about.

But yeah, you gotta write something that makes sense for the song.
Sometimes its complex (Lee Sklar)
Sometimes its simple (Ian Hill)
Sometimes it's repetitive (Cliff Williams)
Sometimes it is the main melody of the song (Wilton Felder)

But you have to write for the instrument to serve the song.

9 times out of 10, bass has to serve the song and not the other way around.
 
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#47
ric4682 said:
That's funny that you posted that because some friends and I actually had a conversation about that exact clip.

I've watched the whole interview and have nothing but respect and admiration for Marcus and the things he's accomplished in his prolific career. That being said, I do disagree about what he's saying when it comes to writing for your instrument.

And let me just lead by saying this is just my opinion.
I think "writing for your instrument" is how we got to everyone and their mother mindlessly slapping away on open strings (usually in E) to try and sound cool. And I think that 'cool' should never be the primary goal. Making music that's "good" (whatever that means to you) should always take priority over music that is cool or novel. There's possibility for overlap between good and cool, but it's a fine line.

I get so fatigued hearing another bass album with generic slap bass that it bums me out. But when I hear bass play a beautiful simple melody over some well-thought-out chords then it really catches my ear. Not because it's a bass playing it, but because it's a good melody.

I'm not saying all slap bass is bad. It's a bold creative choice and works perfectly when the song (rarely) calls for it.

I just think "writing for the instrument" is how we get to guitarists overusing the whammy bar and wah pedal, bassists overusing slap, and drummers overusing double bass pedals. Obviously you have to know the limitations of an instrument when composing for it, but I don't think that's what Marcus is talking about.

I don't want to hear good slap bass playing, I want to hear good music.

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox.
Click to expand...

The bassist that Marcus Miller praised the most during that video was Jaco. He even says that when Jaco invited him to his hotel room for his "lesson" Miller made a conscious choice not to play like Jaco because he did not want to come off like a Jaco clone. I did not see in the video where Marcus said everyone needs to slap like him.
 
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#50
There have been different schools of thought about this over the ages. A lot of what Bach wrote could be thought of as universal in terms of the choice of instrumentation. On the other hand, there are styles of fiddle music that evolved during the same time period, where the tunes, like in Miller's example, revolve around the mechanics of the instrument.

It's all good, and there's much to learn from both approaches. I don't compose anything myself, so I'm off the hook, but when I adapt a melody to the bass, I try to interpret it in light of the unique capabilities of my instrument, whether it's electric or upright.
 
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#51
fdeck said:
There have been different schools of thought about this over the ages. A lot of what Bach wrote could be thought of as universal in terms of the choice of instrumentation. On the other hand, there are styles of fiddle music that evolved during the same time period, where the tunes, like in Miller's example, revolve around the mechanics of the instrument.

It's all good, and there's much to learn from both approaches. I don't compose anything myself, so I'm off the hook, but when I adapt a melody to the bass, I try to interpret it in light of the unique capabilities of my instrument, whether it's electric or upright.
Click to expand...
To add an incredible Bach experience I had. I was in a cathedral in Germany with students and we were lucky to hear Bach played on a gigantic church organ. During a particularly powerful passage a student turned to me and said "I'm kinda freaking out," because the organ, the music and the space evoked terror. Maybe on a piano or a harp it would have an entirely different flavor, but it was incredible to experience a Bach piece performed on the instrument he composed it for. Not to say one is "better" or "more authentic" (impossible to define that), but an example of how the instrument can entirely powerfully impact how a piece makes us feel.
 
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#54
Smooth_bass88 said:
Marcus knows what's up, hundred percent, always. Guy's a legend. We he talks, you listen. Then you may or may not agree!
Click to expand...

There, fixed that for you!

He is a great bass player, not an omniscient being! And things that may work for him may not work for you!

After all: we're talking preference of personal expression here, not science!
 
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#55
Dr. Cheese said:


Michael Manson comes to mind as well as the late Wayman Tisdale.
Click to expand...


For his and this style of music, what Manson does, works just fine.

Talking of Stanley Clarke; When I saw him Play , he too had someone; Armand Sabal Lecco, with him on stage, playing 'bass', when he played melodies and higher pitched things - for a lot of the show.
 
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#56
bass12 said:
I'm not looking to be offended. I simply see a contradiction in what he's saying given how many vocal melodies he's played on bass.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in this clip does he say "don't play melodies on bass".

He even demonstrates a Stanley Clarke bass line, which clearly has a melody: the arrangement of the part however is voiced for a bass guitar, instead of a singer or horn player.

The whole clip is about knowing how to write and arrange appropriately for the voice and register of the instrument.
 
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#57
sean_on_bass said:
I take what he is saying is that things should be ARRANGED for the instrument. Not necessarily to say that a melody has to be written for a single instrument only. For instance if i am going to play a Stevie Wonder melody on bass, i am going to re-interpret that melody to be played on the bass and it is not going to be an exact replica of how Stevie sang it. That's my takeaway.
Click to expand...

Yep.

That's pretty clearly what he's saying when we bother to actually listen to the full 20 second clip instead of just the first 5 seconds of it :cool:
 
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#59
What he says makes a lot of sense. To me it just sounds like he's saying to take the advantages/disadvantages of your instrument in mind when writing for it.

If you're writing for the bass, you can incorporate things like slap parts, effects, octave jumps, single note pedalling etc. easily.

On other instruments that becomes a lot harder, whereas they have capabilities that are hard to replicate on bass (e.g. playing 4+ note chords).

E.g. on guitar, it's clear when a part has been written for some other instrument when it uses full 6 note chords that change most fingers between chords, and jump all over the place. Someone writing the same chord sequence for the guitar would probably have used voicings that omitted some notes, or minimised finger changes between chords.
 
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