Markbass Megathread PART 3

[KJung]

If I answered my question, your answer addresses what your problem with it is... it's not the statement, it's what you want to think it is.



"flat" EQ on a bass amp does not mean that the amp overall is flat on a scope, not by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn't mean that the onboard "eq"ualization was set to make the amp appear flat on a scope either. I would've thought that would obvious to people who understand equalization and as such would know that having say five set bands of EQ couldn't possibly address enough to set it scope flat.


It means the onboard EQ is set neither boosted nor cut. That's all it's ever meant on bass amps. So why would anyone have a problem with that when it's really that simple?

Brad, I think what Vic was saying is that many A/B amps with the tone controls set to 'off' or 'noon' or whatever it is that the manufacturer deems is a 'starting off tone'. As you point out, that is far from flat, and Vic's point was it's better to compare heads based on their ability to reach a 'desired' tone profile.

His point was that he doesn't find it that useful to A/B amps with the 'arbitrary' settings deemed 'flat' by the manufacturer.

Hence... that's why he 'hates it'.

 

[Brad Johnson]

On my TFB420 I always ran it flat SETTINGS () and had no problem with the high end. Then again none of my basses needed any "help" tonally from the amp's tone controls, I could do it all from the bass.

 

[Vic]

Brad, I think what Vic was saying is that many A/B amps with the tone controls set to 'off' or 'noon' or whatever it is that the manufacturer deems is a 'starting off tone'. As you point out, that is far from flat, and Vic's point was it's better to compare heads based on their ability to reach a 'desired' tone profile.

His point was that he doesn't find it that useful to A/B amps with the 'arbitrary' settings deemed 'flat' by the manufacturer.

Hence... that's why he 'hates it'.

+1

See, that wasn't so hard, was it, Brad?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Brad, I think what Vic was saying is that many A/B amps with the tone controls set to 'off' or 'noon' or whatever it is that the manufacturer deems is a 'starting off tone'. As you point out, that is far from flat, and Vic's point was it's better to compare heads based on their ability to reach a 'desired' tone profile.

Cool... I didn't get that from what he wrote. In any event, I actually DO find flat settings comparisons very useful. Here's why:

I had one of the early Trace Elliott AH500 biampable amps. IIRC it had 11 bands of EQ and a flat voicing that sounded fine with a passive Jazz bass and like crap with most everything else. As someone who plays multiple basses, that meant that each time I changed a bass I had to try and fix the sound of the amp to match it.

On live gigs, that sucks. It's extremely time consuming, even being well versed in EQ. That's why how an amp performs with flat SETTINGS is so important to me. MyAMP BH420 was the first amp that I could plug anything I own into with the amp set flat and know my tone wouldn't suck. I'm not forced to fix it.

Why tweak if you don't have to?

His point was that he doesn't find it that useful to A/B amps with the 'arbitrary' settings deemed 'flat' by the manufacturer.

Hence... that's why he 'hates it'.

And that's why I don't see a problem with the term... it is what it is. And so is the amp.

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1

See, that wasn't so hard, was it, Brad?

Read the previous post... and tell me how hard that is.



Better to compare amps after you've had to tweak them for a particular instrument because they didn't sound pleasing right off the bat? Not for me.

 

[Vic]

Read the previous post... and tell me how hard that is.

It's simple. What I'm having trouble understanding is, your difficulty here.

Maybe put another way, I've just posted enough to know that certain terms, right or wrong, can be ambiguous to a lot of readers, so I like to avoid using them. That's all.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's simple. What I'm having trouble understanding is, your difficulty here.

Maybe put another way, I've just posted enough to know that certain terms, right or wrong, can be ambiguous to a lot of readers, so I like to avoid using them. That's all.

My "difficulty" is that there's nothing ambiguous about flat EQ, meaning the EQ on an amp is set flat. I can't say I understand your difficulty with that... but it's cool.


I guess what would be interesting is to see how many people think it's something besides that. You know, the people who see ambiguity in the term and are confused.

 

[Vic]

My "difficulty" is that there's nothing ambiguous about flat EQ, meaning the EQ on an amp is set flat. I can't say I understand your difficulty with that... but it's cool.

I don't have one, but I try to post so it wouldn't matter if anybody would, and there are several terms I know are prone to this. That's what I'm trying to get across to ya, and it doesn't seem to be getting there, which is the part I am having trouble understanding.

I guess what would be interesting is to see how many people think it's something besides that. You know, the people who see ambiguity in the term and are confused.

Sounds like a great idea for another thread...

 

[CElton]

There is some good dialogue here guys, but be careful not to "gank" up the thread.

 

[Vic]

Back on topic, I ALMOST bought an F1 last Friday... ALMOST... I woulda' totally jumped on it, but I REALLY need to save funds right now for a couple other things on the way, plus, just like Ken says, the LMII is a little sweeter to my ears than the F1 anyway. Thing is, it does sound darn good, and the portability is crazy. I played through one at GC a couple weeks ago, and Ken sure made his sound great that same week. Not good for my GAS problem, but I made it!

I also played through the 121P while I was there... it was pretty cool, but I'm gonna' stick with my LMII/UL110 "combo"... MAN that sounds great!!!

 

[jkdahlman]

I was using the dedicated 1/4" jack below the speakon output.

Either way, the speakon not working is the least of my problems. I'm more concerned with the amp totally cutting out. I'm thinking it's possibly a thermal problem. The fan is running on the back but it doesn't cut out immediately...just after it's been played on for a few minutes.

bc

Drag, sorry to hear that. Hope the swap goes OK.
jd

 

[jkdahlman]

On a different track, I finally found a good case for my needs. One of the SKB rolling waterproof boxes. Holds everything & spares. Even a couple of real books if needed. I do a lot of gigs where the car ends up a long way from the room. Either in a parking garage or I have to use valet. Because of this I've been looking for a way to have everything with me in a small, one trip package with good protection. This case, a UL112 & a bass and I'm gone.

 

[B String]

Brad, I think what Vic was saying is that many A/B amps with the tone controls set to 'off' or 'noon' or whatever it is that the manufacturer deems is a 'starting off tone'. As you point out, that is far from flat, and Vic's point was it's better to compare heads based on their ability to reach a 'desired' tone profile.

Would someone just write this in big bold letters at the head
of every amp thread please. Flat doesn't mean anything if you
can't get "your" sound out of the amp. I always audition amps
trying to get my sound out of it. That might be with the amp
flat or with knobs tweaked.

 

[Halftooth]

Ok, this is strange... I'm gonna' have to give another listen to mine to be fair, but I'm not sure I'm going along with you and Ken on this... (not that that's a requirement, of course )...

While I agree this is true with the EQ "flat" (oh how I hate that term in these contexts ), the TFB EQ is so clean and flexible, I've ALWAYS been able to get as much low end and high end as I've ever needed without any trouble at all.

I love my LMII, but I'm not sure I agree that it's got what I'll interpret here as a seemingly "wider usable frequency range" than the TFB.

I notice it only at flat that the LMII has a touch more lows and highs.

As you mentioned, the TF can pretty much do anything, and in general, I do find the tone a bit better and more flexible (not to say that the LMII sounds bad at all, quite the contrary, just a little different and a little more than half the cost!)

 

[Vic]

Would someone just write this in big bold letters at the head
of every amp thread please. Flat doesn't mean anything if you
can't get "your" sound out of the amp. I always audition amps
trying to get my sound out of it. That might be with the amp
flat or with knobs tweaked.

True, except I also echo Brad and probably others that say it's better to start with an amp that's got your sound, or at least something very close to it, before you touch the EQ.

However, you're right tho, it just all boils down to what works best overall... maybe the amp with all the features you need or want most needs a bit more eq than another, but at the end of the day, like you said, if you can get your sound out of it, that's all that really matters.

 

[Vic]

I notice it only at flat that the LMII has a touch more lows and highs.

+1

As you mentioned, the TF can pretty much do anything, and in general, I do find the tone a bit better and more flexible (not to say that the LMII sounds bad at all, quite the contrary, just a little different and a little more than half the cost!)

Pretty much +1, except I'm not sure if I prefer one more than the other tonally or not. The main thing I like about the TFB is that darn timbre knob. I know, I know, harp harp harp, but dang, that's such a useful tool in a venue with relatively poor acoustics, which of course is most of them IMHO.

I don't really find a lot of use for the VLE, but the VPF and a little of this or that and the LMII is "there". I love the LMII's own form of simplicity.

 

[Halftooth]

+1

Pretty much +1, except I'm not sure if I prefer one more than the other tonally or not. The main thing I like about the TFB is that darn timbre knob. I know, I know, harp harp harp, but dang, that's such a useful tool in a venue with relatively poor acoustics, which of course is most of them IMHO.

I don't really find a lot of use for the VLE, but the VPF and a little of this or that and the LMII is "there". I love the LMII's own form of simplicity.

I completely agree...that Timbre control is fantastic!

I do like the simplicity of the LMII a lot as well. Again, I'm not sure it quite as flexible as the TF, but again, it's pretty close and less than half the cost that it's hard to complain.

So far, I really like the LMII through my Schroeder cabs, and really it sounds great with just about everything I play through (as does the TF). I'm really impressed with the way it sounds through a Schro Mini 10+ Light...talk about a small, light and loud!

 

[Vic]

...I'm really impressed with the way it sounds through a Schro Mini 10+ Light...talk about a small, light and loud!

...drool...

Ok, here's a new game... LMII "micro-rigs"

Here are my two:

LMII + Epifani UL110
LMII + Yamaha BBT110S

I have a UL112 as well, but I really find it's better as a "bottom" to the UL110. WOW a great 110 with the LMII is an incredible thing. That (what I'll call) dynamic punch of the LMII just really brings out the bark in a small high power capable cab.

 

[lbwdog]

TWO YEAR WARRANTY:
This may have been covered but are you supposed to get any warranty paperwork at time of sale?
My salesman said I should get something in the mail after registering on line.
Correct or not?

 

[Vic]

TWO YEAR WARRANTY:
This may have been covered but are you supposed to get any warranty paperwork at time of sale?
My salesman said I should get something in the mail after registering on line.
Correct or not?

Correct, except you don't have to register online as far as I know unless something changed. I just got mine in the mail, and it may take a long time... I think some folks said up to 8 weeks. However, that does NOT mean you're not covered. All you really need is your sales receipt and a GC to talk to.

The GC is supposed to set up the warranty... again, unless something's changed... did they give you a URL to go to?