Mesa/Boogie Titan V12 megathread!

[baxter_x]

In what king of rack do you put you Titan? I'm asking as I already had overheating issues with my amp last summer. It's stored in an SKB 6U rack
Could this 8U rack do the trick

?

 

[Wasnex]

In what king of rack do you put you Titan? I'm asking as I already had overheating issues with my amp last summer. It's stored in an SKB 6U rack
Could this 8U rack do the trickView attachment 2874137 ?

You just need a case big enough to let all of the vents breath easily, so 6RU should be plenty providing the vents are not blocked, and the amp has had the Mesa technical updates. If your amp has not been updated, its probably just matter of time before it goes down again. Unfortunately the original design has some severe problems that must be fixed for the amp to operate reliably at the power levels you run.

 

[DAcat]

Agree with wasnex...also the manual warns over and over that you must leave plenty of space above and below the amp to prevent overheating. I too had troubles with overheating and shut down when my Titan was in a 4 space rack. I then either used my head without a rack, or later on I got a 8 space rack and put the Titan right in the middle so it has plenty of room to breathe. I've had no problems with over heating since. Making 1200 watts creates a little heat I guess.
Peace, DAcat

 

[baxter_x]

So to both of you, the amp must have the updates to store it in a rack? Mine soesn't have the updates, but I shot a mail toMesa last year about it. They told me it's not mandatory. And if the amp has worked flawlessly from there, it's not necessary to update it.
The fact thta I had overheating issues is probably due to the rack itselft. So I put a fan on the side on the rack to extract the air produced by the amp. Now the amp runs super cool.

 

[blong1]

So to both of you, the amp must have the updates to store it in a rack? Mine soesn't have the updates, but I shot a mail toMesa last year about it. They told me it's not mandatory. And if the amp has worked flawlessly from there, it's not necessary to update it.
The fact thta I had overheating issues is probably due to the rack itselft. So I put a fan on the side on the rack to extract the air produced by the amp. Now the amp runs super cool.

Fan worked for me too

 

[Wasnex]

So to both of you, the amp must have the updates to store it in a rack? Mine soesn't have the updates, but I shot a mail toMesa last year about it. They told me it's not mandatory. And if the amp has worked flawlessly from there, it's not necessary to update it.
The fact thta I had overheating issues is probably due to the rack itselft. So I put a fan on the side on the rack to extract the air produced by the amp. Now the amp runs super cool.

I don't know for sure what the update entails, but I believe it involves adding a fan, installing a vented top cover, replacing the transformer, and either changing out the heat sink or modifying how the output devices are mounted to the heat sink. Seems there are lot of things that can go wrong, and most but not all seem directly related to overheating. I don't think moving your amp from a 6RU case to 8RU will make a bit of difference, especially as you have also installed a fan.

I am in the same boat as you. My amp is not updated either, because the original buyer did not register with Mesa. The amp had only been in service for 13 months or so when I got it. I called the music store where it was originally purchased. They confirmed the date but refused to provide proof. I called Mesa and they were not willing to call the store or work with their distributor to confirm the purchase date. Their position was no warranty service because the manufacture date was more than five years earlier.

During the call, Mesa told me to not worry about it because I don't push the amp very hard. I asked them if I could still have a major meltdown because of the defect and they said, yeah sure, but you could play for years without a problem. They gave me the impression the update is far more critical if you play super loud.

My amp is in a Mesa headcase. It's a basement queen and I usually play for no more than 1 hour. A few times I have checked the top panel of the amp after playing and it has always been at room temperature. I still worry about it. What if I decide to do a gig and need to crank the amp. Guess I better leave it home and take another amp for the heavy lifting. But as you know, nothing sounds like the Titan!

 

[baxter_x]

Fan worked for me too

It seems to work pretty well, yes.

I don't think moving your amp from a 6RU case to 8RU will make a bit of difference, especially as you have also installed a fan.

The thing is my SKB rack is pretty narrowed. Unlike a THON rack for instance. So, moving from my SKB 6U to a THON 8U might actually improve someting. But I would feel really reassured if I could put the faon rom my SKB rack to the THON rack. But I don't think I can do this.
Mesa seem to confirm, the updates are not mandatory as some Titan ares till running without any issues without those updates. I'm also thinking about drilling some holes on the top of the amp to improve cooling.

 

[agedhorse]

In what king of rack do you put you Titan? I'm asking as I already had overheating issues with my amp last summer. It's stored in an SKB 6U rack
Could this 8U rack do the trickView attachment 2874137 ?

Racks with those sliding rail nuts suck so bad... All it takes is one frustrating attempt at changing out a 2U piece with a couple of 1U pieces and you will want to chop it up and burn it.

Tapped steel rack rail is the only type of rack a pro user will even consider. WAY more user friendly.

Also, for those using the SKB and Gator type racks that use the folded aluminum valence that is also the rail with snap nuts, beware when using heavy amps because a fall could result in the rail tearing apart and your amp bouncing around inside the rack. False sense of security.

 

[agedhorse]

The update improves reliability and eliminates the possibility of overheating by improving thermal stability, especially under high drive, low impedance operation.

As a general comment on North America sales, and this may vary in different regions as warranty obligations are governed by different country rules and their distributors, is that you really must have a copy of the original sales receipt from an authorized dealer. Without it, we have no idea what the real story is so we must go by the build date. The problem is that we do sometimes see used amps resold as new and when an amp is 8-10 years old it would be unusual for it to be new old stock, especially if the dealer isn't authorized and/or won't confirm and provide an original bill of sale with serial number. The serial number must connect back to the bill of sale and that original authorized dealer.

Since our warranty is transferable, it's necessary to do this.

 

[baxter_x]

Racks with those sliding rail nuts suck so bad... All it takes is one frustrating attempt at changing out a 2U piece with a couple of 1U pieces and you will want to chop it up and burn it.

Tapped steel rack rail is the only type of rack a pro user will even consider. WAY more user friendly.

Also, for those using the SKB and Gator type racks that use the folded aluminum valence that is also the rail with snap nuts, beware when using heavy amps because a fall could result in the rail tearing apart and your amp bouncing around inside the rack. False sense of security.

I see your point. However, I never experienced an issues with my SKB rack. Even with my heavier Ampeg SVT 4 Pro. But I guess I don't tour enough. And I also want to keep it lightweight. I do believe pro players would never use such racks.
Are those racks you are talking bout?
Link Removed

The update improves reliability and eliminates the possibility of overheating by improving thermal stability, especially under high drive, low impedance operation.

Would you advise anyone to make those upgrades? Is it mandatory to you?

 

[Wasnex]

It seems to work pretty well, yes.


The thing is my SKB rack is pretty narrowed. Unlike a THON rack for instance. So, moving from my SKB 6U to a THON 8U might actually improve someting. But I would feel really reassured if I could put the faon rom my SKB rack to the THON rack. But I don't think I can do this.
Mesa seem to confirm, the updates are not mandatory as some Titan ares till running without any issues without those updates. I'm also thinking about drilling some holes on the top of the amp to improve cooling.

Well if the vents are blocked by the narrow case then a different case may be better. I agree with your comments about the potential benefits of the fan. Just make sure it is helping rather than pushing against the Titan's natural air flow. Also, Agedhorse's comments about the moving rail nuts and the weakness of the Gator and SKB molded cases are very true and relevant. Best to chose a different option.

 

[baxter_x]

Well if the vents are blocked by the narrow case then a different case may be better. I agree with your comments about the potential benefits of the fan. Just make sure it is helping rather than pushing against the Titan's natural air flow. Also, Agedhorse's comments about the moving rail nuts and the weakness of the Gator and SKB molded cases are very true and relevant. Best to chose a different option.

I did check the air flows the right way. It pulls off the air from the rack as the amp sucks air inside.
About those SKB rack, I do believe you both but for the moment I don't think I tour enough to justify a "real" rack. However I'd be interested if you guys could provide me more information on those "real" racks.

 

[Wasnex]

As a general comment on North America sales, and this may vary in different regions as warranty obligations are governed by different country rules and their distributors, is that you really must have a copy of the original sales receipt from an authorized dealer. Without it, we have no idea what the real story is so we must go by the build date. The problem is that we do sometimes see used amps resold as new and when an amp is 8-10 years old it would be unusual for it to be new old stock, especially if the dealer isn't authorized and/or won't confirm and provide an original bill of sale with serial number. The serial number must connect back to the bill of sale and that original authorized dealer.

I totally get this.

What I don't get is a confirmed authorized dealer refusing to provide proof of purchase to a subsequent owner of the amp during the warranty period.

I gave the dealer the original owner's name and the amps serial. The dealer (owner) confirmed the amp was sold new from his shop and had been in service for less than two years; he even gave me the original purchase date. He agreed to send me proof of purchase after contacting the distributor and the original owner. The dealer was between distributors at the time so asked for a couple of weeks. Later, he promised to send me the proof multiple times, but never did. I was always very polite, respectful, and patient in our conversations and always gave him 4 to 5 days, or more, between contacts. Eventually he stopped taking my calls and returning my emails. Some of his clerks also confirmed the purchase in the store's data system, but no one every sent proof. I did everything I could to make it easy including sending a self addressed envelope with a form letter he could use to certify the purchase.

When I first contacted Mesa, they confirmed the amp had not been serviced and stressed the importance of the update. Next, I made 1st contact with the dealer to get proof of purchase. Later when I told Mesa about my experience with the dealer and asked if they could contact the owner directly to receive verbal confirmation of the original purchase date, they refused and showed no curiosity for the dealers shady behavior. This is when they told me to not worry about the update because the amp might be fine without it. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

I can confirm Mesa's warranty is good. A few years earlier, I bought an M9 brand new for less than I paid for my used Titan. Mesa installed the technical updates for free, and the only thing I had to pay was shipping. With that experience I bought the Titan with confidence, especially since it was represented as a recent purchase with all updates. This seems to be a selling point the dealer used with the original purchaser.

I guess the moral of this story is to confirm Mesa's excellent transferable warranty has been activated before buying a used amp, especially if that amp requires extensive technical updates.

 

[Wasnex]

However I'd be interested if you guys could provide me more information on those "real" racks.

The case you showed would probably be fine if it had tapped rails instead of the sliding nut rails. Unfortunately the screws holding the rack gear in place have a tendency to loosen up over time. When this happens with sliding nuts, the gear is free to move around in ways that are likely to incur damage.

 

[agedhorse]

I see your point. However, I never experienced an issues with my SKB rack. Even with my heavier Ampeg SVT 4 Pro. But I guess I don't tour enough. And I also want to keep it lightweight. I do believe pro players would never use such racks.
Are those racks you are talking bout?
Link Removed


Would you advise anyone to make those upgrades? Is it mandatory to you?

That style is fine, doesn't have to be shockproof though. The main issue is the tapped rails.

When the aluminum rails tear away, the resulting edges are like razor blades too. The just don't hold up well to touring.

I have amp racks ATA style with tapped rails that have over a thousand gigs on them, used for commercial pro audio touring.

 

[agedhorse]

I can't emphasize how important having the original paperwork is for all manufacturer's warranties. It's especially important with transferable warranties, and the dealer should have (and probably did) known this. I'm sorry to hear about things like this.

 

[baxter_x]

The update improves reliability and eliminates the possibility of overheating by improving thermal stability, especially under high drive, low impedance operation.

As my amp hasn't been updated I usually run it with the impedance switch set to 2 omhs, even if I run it at 4 or 8 omhs. This to prevent to much load on the power section by limiting the output power up to 840W, just in case. Am I right to do so, or is it totally useless?

 

[agedhorse]

As my amp hasn't been updated I usually run it with the impedance switch set to 2 omhs, even if I run it at 4 or 8 omhs. This to prevent to much load on the power section by limiting the output power up to 840W, just in case. Am I right to do so, or is it totally useless?

Doesn't really work this way. While it reduces the output current and power somewhat, it doesn't really reduce the thermal load on the output stage.

 

[baxter_x]

Would you then advise me to send the amp to Mesa for the updates, or keep it this way as long as the amp is correctly cooled?

And what about drilling holes on the top of the chassis? Obviously, I would take it off, drill those holes and put it back on.
I might be a little paranoiac, but I already had to service the amp because of a shut down onstage. I admit I was partially responsable as the SKB rack was proably a bit to narrowed, but I really want to fully trust the amp now.
I'm also looking for a spare one with the updates.

 

[agedhorse]

Following the factory recommendations is best. I don't think the holes in the chassis alone would improve anything