Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread part Four!

[vin*tone]

Just a thought.... Maybe it's the DI signal that's accurate and the cab isn't. I mean - you've got a lot of resonant frequencies, ring from the cab and ambient speaker movement going on there.

The DI comes after the driver tube so what comes out of the DI is pretty much what's going into the Mosfet power section. It should be much closer to the output sound than most other amps DI's.

 

[naturalkinds]

I totally agree it would be right to find comparison data. Right now, I'm just using my ears, which is pretty unscientific. I don't have any other sessions on this hard drive.

: (

And you're right; it might be something to do with the miked signal. Close-miking is supposed to reduce the room's effect, but nothing's perfect.

The software is Logic.

 

[Jim C]

It would be interesting to see the above graphs compared directly to a Reddi or similar.

IMO the only accurate way to verify any phase shift would be to compare the WA DI to other DI's.
The speaker, mic, mic placement, recording chain, etc. pose too many variables for an accurate assesment.

BTW, recorded last weeks rehearsal to CD via 2 PZM's (as we have often times done over the last year; same room, equipment, etc.)
Bandmates came to reherasal last night and said that this amp is noticeably better sounding than other heads I've brought (through the same cabinet). Pretty cool when your band tells you that your new amp rules and not to make any changes; ever!

 

[sunbeast]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the mic'd Scout cab that was giving off an oddly phased signal due to the passive radiator. I don't have a very extensive understanding of the physics behind the stuff, but this basic (first result in a Google search!) article on passive radiators suggests that they do not generally function in perfect phase with the active speaker:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/whatis/PR.htm
The article says that it is usually imperceptible to the human ear (as the two cones are producing different frequency ranges), but it would obviously become an issue when trying to sum the signal with another signal with different phasing characterisitics...I may have completely missed it, but that's how I read it anyway!

 

[EastCoastThump]

I just picked up a 2nd Walkabout head to use as a back-up. Both it and my main Walkabout are red-faced from the first two-dozen built (in fact, they have consecutive serial numbers).

The curious thing is how they each have a distinct voice at the same settings--even in the same Walkabout cabinet with the tubes from one moved to the other.

The difference isn't radical (the second head has a lighter low end than the first), and a little eq on the second head brings it in line with my main Walkabout. Still, it's an obvious enough difference that I could see how someone would play the second head with the eq set flat and not hear anything magical in the tone.

I'm curious if those of you who have played a lot of these heads have had a similar experience.

 

[naturalkinds]

I believe that D.A.R.K. posted a similar experience, saying that he preferred the tone of the brown-faced WA to his more recent WA. I guess that presumes he heard a difference, so you might not be unique in hearing one. I believe Chef has posted that he heard no audible difference between earlier and older WAs.

 

[vin*tone]

I'd love it if a Mesa rep could chime in on some of these comments.

 

[sunbeast]

My two blackfaced Walkabouts with very close serial numbers sounded very different, but they came with two different sets of 12ax7s (one Chinese set and one Russian). As far as I could tell, they sounded mostly the same with the same set of tubes. Its possible that your pots weren't mounted so that the center of the sweep on all of them results in the knob pointing directly up as well (since they are not circuitboard mounted pots).

 

[lomo]

I'd love it if a Mesa rep could chime in on some of these comments.

Unfortunately, I don't think Mesa is up to speed with that. While on the phone with a Mesa rep the other day (to get an RA# for my Walkabout repair) we started talking about cabs and I was trying to explain the fEarful concept and how it is evolving, etc. He flatly replied :"we can't spend our time worrying about what's posted on the 'net". I suggested that if used wisely, the 'net can be a resource of immense value, but I had lost him. Sadly, it's the antithesis of Genz, who are remarkably attentive IME. The fact that Mesa does not allow email support or inquiries is quaint, but woefully inadequate in 2011 IMHO.....and I'm a Mesa fanboy. Hopefully one of them will chime in and correct me, but I don't think anybody's home.

 

[RickenBoogie]

I'm a big fanboy as well, but it would be nice if Mesa stepped into the 21st century as well as they have building bass amps. Huh? I think what I said is, they shoul get a rep on TB and feel our collective pulses, and they do build nice bass amps. Something like that.

 

[StayLow]

I agree that it'd be nice if Boogie had email support, but it's refreshing that a company has employees doing their job rather than surfing the 'net these days.

Ultimately a business has to decide if they're going to do their own thing and stick with established designs that work, or chase the online whimsy of amateurs with an endless parade of halfassed solutions to non-existent problems in hopes of being the 'it' brand on a major internet forum for a few months before the main shill/cheerleaders jump to a different company and bring their megathreads with them.

Take it or leave it, Mesa just doesn't care. For example after all these years Mesa is still using those politically-incorrect leather Scout handles that come unstitched every so often. They couldn't have changed those by now? Yet I don't get tired of calling for replacements and they don't get tired of sending them out. It's a goofy system, but it works.

I own several Walkabouts of different iterations, which all sound effectively the same.

 

[lomo]

IMHO this is about listening to your customers, not chasing fads. There can be a happy medium between wasting time and being attentive. IMO it's poor service to have to leave a phone message and wait for a call back to get an answer to a question that may require only a few words to answer; it's 2011. Quirky is OK, but ignoring the evolution of service......not very adaptive as far as I can see. I look at GB and it's new offerings and am blown away. Then I look at the M3 Carbine and shake my head. Anyway-enough of a derail-someone can call Mesa and hope to get an answer to the DI questions posted above....maybe. FWIW I have owned a few Walkabouts and they all sounded the same to me, but I never A/B'ed them meticulously.

 

[StayLow]

Overall I agree with you, Lomo.

For example I found the Carbine to be so quirky, though I should say clueless, that I just couldn't buy one though I really wanted to. I like the sound and performance of the amp very much, but some of the obvious oversights drive me nuts. The push/pull knobs for example, using knobs that feel loose and are especially difficult to grasp & pull vs. many other knob types. And the initial QC issues. I doubt they gig test their new products, so heeding some feedback would do them a lot of good. And yes playing phone tag is very frustrating.

Genz however is too far on the opposite end of the spectrum for me, and is a perfect example of what I was deriding in my post above.

Regarding the WA DI, I've had nothing but stellar results in studio and live, even when blending a mic'd signal. I can't say if it's phase perfect, but it sounds fantastic.

 

[naturalkinds]

FYI - I did email Radial with respect to this specific thread. Hopefully the Mesa competition has something to offer on the issue.

I agree with all of Lomo's points on Mesa CS!

 

[Jim C]

Could anyone described the different faceplate styles, order of production, and changes between? Mine is a silver face, with maroon graphics, a passive / active switch, and the effects defeat switch.

Regarding amp to amp differences: I really wish the parametric section had detents on the gain controls and some sort of numbering or lines around the perimeter of the freq controls. Detents would also be more professional for the other controls so that one could get back to the exacts same adjustments. I find that very small adjustments can make big tonal differences and that the physical location of a knob from amp to amp is not at all repeatable.

 

[Willicious]

I really wish the parametric section had detents on the gain controls and some sort of numbering or lines around the perimeter of the freq controls. Detents would also be more professional for the other controls so that one could get back to the exacts same adjustments. I find that very small adjustments can make big tonal differences and that the physical location of a knob from amp to amp is not at all repeatable.

+1
If you're a noob like me who doesn't fully comprehend the frequency range numbers, interfacing with this EQ is a daunting proposition.

BTW, L-O-V-E the sounds this amp produces.

 

[sunbeast]

Regarding amp to amp differences: I really wish the parametric section had detents on the gain controls and some sort of numbering or lines around the perimeter of the freq controls. Detents would also be more professional for the other controls so that one could get back to the exacts same adjustments. I find that very small adjustments can make big tonal differences and that the physical location of a knob from amp to amp is not at all repeatable.

Both of my silver plate WA with black screenprint have both center detents on the parametric gain controls AND frequency labels around the freq controls (one on each extremity of the turn of the pot and one in the middle). It would be nice if the bass and treble controls had a "flat" detent, though I don't know that there is a functional "flat" for the mid control.

The progression of different WAs has been gone over several times in the Megathreads, but unfortunately there is no "sticky". The only major differences in functionality are that later ones have the passive/active switch vs. early ones with seperate input jacks and the addition of an effects loop bypass switch on newer units. Mesa will do both of these upgrades for cheap or sometimes free, so many older amps have been updated (if yours has the maroon ink, then I'm guessing yours was updated later on since I've seen later black inked ones without the updates). The only other difference I have heard about apart from cosmetics is different preamp tubes, and Mesa changes those out at will- they do seem to have a big effect on tone as has been mentioned many times!

 

[vin*tone]

... I really wish the parametric section had detents on the gain controls and some sort of numbering or lines around the perimeter of the freq controls. Detents would also be more professional for the other controls so that one could get back to the exacts same adjustments. I find that very small adjustments can make big tonal differences and that the physical location of a knob from amp to amp is not at all repeatable.

*The detents cause the scratchy problems on the Eden heads - described to me (by an annonymous and highly reputable techie from a company starting with G) as a "DC offset issue" .... He explained it but I understood about 30% of what he was saying.

 

[Chef]

Jim: sounds like yours has been update, as Sunbeast noted.

One or two Megathreads back, someone did spectrum analysis on what the "passive mid" was doing, and concluded that "falt was at about 10 o'clock."

Seems about right, listening-wise.

 

[Crabby]

I don't mind any of the quirks or missing features of my Walkabout as it really is a masterpiece of design and execution. There is little doubt that Mesa hit a home run with this amp and I am glad that it hasn't had a bunch of revisions and upgrades. I actually don't really care for the look of the black face version as much as the silver.

Speaking of customer service, when my M9 Carbine needed to have some upgrades done I called Mesa and the staff was helpful but not particularly friendly. They agreed to complete the upgrades but shipping was on me both ways. Luckily my dealer covered the shipping but my amp was returned to the dealer from Mesa slightly damaged (bent rack ear and scratches). The repair took almost three months in total and the dealer ended up giving me a brand new amp. I can't really give a lot of praise to Mesa in this instance as I was without my amp for a hell of a long time, they were pretty careless with it while it was there and if there is a known problem with the first run of these amps, I would think a replacement amp right off the bat is not unreasonable.

I think companies like Genz offering such outstanding customer service have raised the bar and although Mesa does take care of their customers eventually, the service was slow. My amp was finally returned and not only was the rack ear bent, but someone had taken a black marker and tried to cover up the scuff marks. This frustrated me the most as there was a clear attempt to try and hide the damage before it was packed up and sent back.