Mesa M6 Carbine Mega-Thread Pt Deux

[Smallequestrian]

why does that bother you my brother?

Because a lot of use the blue background for the forum and the maroon text is very difficult to read. Plus there is no need for a large font, if someone has trouble reading it they can make it bigger on their own.

 

[Neil]

Cool. I got it! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[tombowlus]

I had a long talk with the designer of the M6/9 heads Friday. I may have made some headway on at least the mute as well as maybe the pre/post. Not sure about the efx loop vs master control, but we talked... oh yes... we talked...

Yup, and let me just add that those guys from M/B are a quality hang. Dan was very receptive to all we had to say, and believe you me, between Vic, Tom Lees (our new Technical Editor) and myself, we chewed Dan's ear (and Doug's, and Randall's) pretty hard. Good people, all the way around.

Tom.

 

[Stox]

Hi
Have just ordered a M6 Carbine, I tried it with a Berg Ae410 which
sounded incredible, now, for portability I would prefer to have 2 Ae210's which would give me more flexibility (using one for smaller gigs and rehearsing and then the pair on bigger gigs). Just wanting an opinion really whether 2 Ae210's will sound the same as the Ae410. I notice that the Ae 410 has an SPL of 103db whereas the Ae210 has an SPL of 100db, can I expect any difference because of that?
Thanks in advance for your replies...

 

[Neil]

I've compared 2 - AE210s vs 1 - AE410. Either way it's a great sound but I prefer the sound of the 1 - AE410 cab. To my ears it had more focus. Not sure if it has anything to do with SPL or the fact that the 210s are rear ported while the 410 is front ported. Hope this helps.

 

[Saluki]

Stox- Sounds like a question for Vic. He has the M6 and 2-AE210s. I have heard 'em and they sound great. I would prefer the 2-AE210s for portability over the AE410.

 

[KJung]

I've compared 2 - AE210s vs 1 - AE410. Either way it's a great sound but I prefer the sound of the 1 - AE410 cab. To my ears it had more focus. Not sure if it has anything to do with SPL or the fact that the 210s are rear ported while the 410 is front ported. Hope this helps.

In general, I prefer the simplicity of a single lightweight 410 to the 2 x 210 form factor. I would think the tone and volume would be very similar, with the 410 possibly being slightly punchier, like the 410UL versus 2 x 210UL's in the Epi line, I believe due to slightly less internal volume of the 410 versus the 2 x 210's.

In the case of the AE cabs with the M6, it would be the AE410 all the way. The AE210's are very shallow, which would make setting a full size rack on the top a little dicey. And, a single 410 is quite a bit less expensive than the dual 210. Also, with the lightweight and relatively small size of the AE410, there isn't much advantage to the two small boxes regarding schlepping IMO.

 

[Vic]

In general, I prefer the simplicity of a single lightweight 410 to the 2 x 210 form factor. I would think the tone and volume would be very similar, with the 410 possibly being slightly punchier, like the 410UL versus 2 x 210UL's in the Epi line, I believe due to slightly less internal volume of the 410 versus the 2 x 210's.

Nope. Actually, the AE210's have essentially identical air volume per driver as the AE410. There's just more hieght, so there has to be less depth. The diff is literally negligible.

The AE210's are very shallow, which would make setting a full size rack on the top a little dicey.

Nope. While they are shallower, stability is simply not a problem at all.

And, a single 410 is quite a bit less expensive than the dual 210.

True.

Also, with the lightweight and relatively small size of the AE410, there isn't much advantage to the two small boxes regarding schlepping IMO.

Very true. It's definitely a negative to transport two 40 pound packages vs one 65 pound package, and the compactness of the AE410 accentuates the convenience.

Here's the thing. From a tonal standpoint, the 410 is going to probably have a slight "coherency" benefit simply because the drivers are grouped closer together and it's tuned as a 410. There are also cost and portability benefits. If you were always going to use/need all four 10's, the AE410 is the only sensible choice. Period.

HOWEVER, if modularity is very important to you, and you would often enough only want/need a single 210 cab, but also want/need 4 10's often enough, and the price difference was not a problem for you, the 2x210 makes a lot of sense. It's going to be a slightly "bigger" sounding rig due to the spreading of the drivers, and you'll also have a bit of a self-monitoring benefit with the added height on smaller stages. From a portability standpoint, there MIGHT be an advantage in some specific cases where your vehicle can't do the larger 410 cab, but could do two smaller 210 cabs.

IMHO.

 

[tombowlus]

Here's the thing. From a tonal standpoint, the 410 is going to probably have a slight "coherency" benefit simply because the drivers are grouped closer together and it's tuned as a 410.

FWIW, I don't have two AE210's, but I have an HS210 and an AE210. My guess is that two AE210's are going to be a little more 'open' sounding and the AE410 is going to be a bit more focused and punchy, relative to the two AE210's.

This is, of course, IME/IMHO, and YMMV.

Edit: I should add, though, that the real shiz with the M6 is the AE410/AE210!

Tom.

 

[KJung]

Nope. Actually, the AE210's have essentially identical air volume per driver as the AE410. There's just more hieght, so there has to be less depth. The diff is literally negligible.

Nope. While they are shallower, stability is simply not a problem at all.

True.

Very true. It's definitely a negative to transport two 40 pound packages vs one 65 pound package, and the compactness of the AE410 accentuates the convenience.

Here's the thing. From a tonal standpoint, the 410 is going to probably have a slight "coherency" benefit simply because the drivers are grouped closer together and it's tuned as a 410. There are also cost and portability benefits. If you were always going to use/need all four 10's, the AE410 is the only sensible choice. Period.

HOWEVER, if modularity is very important to you, and you would often enough only want/need a single 210 cab, but also want/need 4 10's often enough, and the price difference was not a problem for you, the 2x210 makes a lot of sense. It's going to be a slightly "bigger" sounding rig due to the spreading of the drivers, and you'll also have a bit of a self-monitoring benefit with the added height on smaller stages. From a portability standpoint, there MIGHT be an advantage in some specific cases where your vehicle can't do the larger 410 cab, but could do two smaller 210 cabs.

IMHO.

+1 to the above. However, by 'dicey' on the thin profile, I didn't mean that it might fall over, but rather that the rubber feet on the bottom of most standard racks would probably be wider than the cab is deep... creating a non-optimal stacking capability.

Also +1, the difference between 2 x 210 and their 410 equivalent is usually pretty subtle.

 

[Vic]

FWIW, I don't have two AE210's, but I have an HS210 and an AE210. My guess is that two AE210's are going to be a little more 'open' sounding and the AE410 is going to be a bit more focused and punchy, relative to the two AE210's.

Right. That's exactly what I was also trying to say with the driver grouping comment and the coherency vs bigger comments.

 

[Vic]

However, by 'dicey' on the thin profile, I didn't mean that it might fall over, but rather that the rubber feet on the bottom of most standard racks would probably be wider than the cab is deep... creating a non-optimal stacking capability.

I can see your questioning that, but at least with the shallow and medium racks, it works fine. A full deep rack might look a bit odd tho, and might have that problem. I'll give you that, but that'll never be an issue for me. I'm done with those days.

 

[Stox]

Great replies guys, thanks to all of you. Seems the sound difference could be pretty negligible. I had thought that a rack might cause an issue with regards to the smaller depth of the Ae210. I know the M6 is 12 1/8 " deep so was going to put it a standard SKB 3U rack with a Korg tuner. Cost isn't the issue thankfully. Portability is a big factor, don't suppose any of you drive a new BMW 3 series and have fitted an Ae410 in the trunk? I'll be asking for one of you to gig the new rig on my behalf at this rate.

Was also thinking I could stack the 2x Ae210's vertically for better monitoring on tight stages.

Either way I'm fortunate in that the dealer I'm buying it from will allow me to try both speaker arrays before I stick 'em in the car!

 

[Vic]

I had thought that a rack might cause an issue with regards to the smaller depth of the Ae210. I know the M6 is 12 1/8 " deep so was going to put it a standard SKB 3U rack with a Korg tuner. Cost isn't the issue thankfully. Portability is a big factor, don't suppose any of you drive a new BMW 3 series and have fitted an Ae410 in the trunk? I'll be asking for one of you to gig the new rig on my behalf at this rate.

Yeah, sounds like you might be one for the specific case of the dual 210 actually being more portable for you. Also, on the racks, I've had my M6 in both a Pearson medium depth and also the Gator "Shallow" racks, it fits both, and both sit nicely on top the AE210. Also, I have another amp in a X-Rack (the really shallow stuff) and of course that works great too. FWIW, anyway.

Was also thinking I could stack the 2x Ae210's vertically for better monitoring on tight stages.

I also had this thought, but Jim told me to try it first in the normal stacking mode, which I did, and he was right, it's not really necessary to go "on-end". At least IME.

 

[David Jayne]

I'd noticed that since installing it in a 3 space SKB, my M6 was running rather warm, sometimes hot. Turns out it's because in spite of all the nifty ventilation slots found all over the M6, the ones that matter most are on the left rear, on the side. These are the primary exhaust for the power amp heatsink. So I cut a window in the SKB. This is reversible, since the modified part(handle/bracket) is easily replaced. Much cooler now.

 

[KJung]

I'd noticed that since installing it in a 3 space SKB, my M6 was running rather warm, sometimes hot. Turns out it's because in spite of all the nifty ventilation slots found all over the M6, the ones that matter most are on the left rear, on the side. These are the primary exhaust for the power amp heatsink. So I cut a window in the SKB. This is reversible, since the modified part(handle/bracket) is easily replaced. Much cooler now.

Nice fix!

Just FYI, as I've posted a few times, the SKB 2 space rack is a different design than the 3+ space, and has plenty of 'side airflow' for the M6. It's also significantly lighter, and a bit shallower, which makes it a perfect shell for M6 sized two space heads.

 

[Chef]

Nice mod!!!!!!!
Given my issues in the three space gator bag, I'd definately want to do that if I were in the 3 space rack you chose...

 

[mrpackerguy]

I got too used to carrying my Markbass SA450 in a gig bag, so I searched and searched for a good deal on a large-size padded computer laptop bag for the M6 as an alternative to racking it and came up with this:

http://www.amazon.com/Miltigiant-La...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232724627&sr=1-1

It came yesterday and is a pretty good fit. A 19" bag would have been better as the M6 is 19" across, but it's plenty padded with lots of separate pouches and compartments for cables, etc. It doesn't slide around much at all in there. And with the M6 at 24# or so, it's about right - just at the point of which that if it were much heavier, I'd have probably rack mounted it. The sheer size of this padded bag makes carrying it around via shoulder strap a cinch. Got free 5-9 day shipping from Amazon, too, but it got here in 2 days.

I guess this means I'm keeping the M6 and flipping the Mpulse 600.

 

[David Jayne]

Nice fix!

Just FYI, as I've posted a few times, the SKB 2 space rack is a different design than the 3+ space, and has plenty of 'side airflow' for the M6. It's also significantly lighter, and a bit shallower, which makes it a perfect shell for M6 sized two space heads.

True dat. I've got two two-space ones, definitely more room on the sides. The 3 space has flush mount handles, with sunken 'wells' for your fingers which take space. The well is what I cut a window into.

 

[Saluki]

When I get mine (10 weeks past Friday), I am going to put it in a gator 4 space shallow. I may use the other two spaces so will this be a problem. I don't plan on using it at extremes ( 4 ohm load in temperature contolled venues). Just wondering. Hey I have a drill too and will use it if I need to.