Mesa Subway D-350!

[DJ Bebop]

To be honest, and no disrespect meant here, I just don't understand this logic. And you're not the first one I've seen post something like this. But given the size and weight of the current selection of 700/800 watt Class D amps, and the fact that they generally offer a deeper feature set then their 350 watt counterparts, AND they obviously come with a volume control, why would you "downsize", especially given you already own their 700 watt, more feature rich counterpart. I can totally understand if you're just starting out and own neither, but given you already own the D800+, I respectfully don't understand. Just asking as I'm very intrigued by this thinking, and I'm wondering as a designer and manufacturer myself if I'm missing something here. Also, no disrespect meant to Andy or the Mesa products either.

To be honest, and no disrespect meant here, I just don't understand this logic. And you're not the first one I've seen post something like this. But given the size and weight of the current selection of 700/800 watt Class D amps, and the fact that they generally offer a deeper feature set then their 350 watt counterparts, AND they obviously come with a volume control, why would you "downsize", especially given you already own their 700 watt, more feature rich counterpart. I can totally understand if you're just starting out and own neither, but given you already own the D800+, I respectfully don't understand. Just asking as I'm very intrigued by this thinking, and I'm wondering as a designer and manufacturer myself if I'm missing something here. Also, no disrespect meant to Andy or the Mesa products either.

For my selfish reason this would work for me and yes, I also have an 800 watt Class D is, I have older cabs that can handle the 300 watts better than the 800 watts and it would be a good thing to be able to use two 8 ohm cabs that would appreciate the 300 watts instead of 600 or 800.

 

[6thplanet]

I'm with Jim on this. I really don't get the whole "800 watts is overkill". They have a volume knob.

Is it the old tube amp mentality that an amp has to be cranked to "sound" good? If you know anything about these high power amps now, it's not that way. They sound basically the same wether it's at 1 or 8. Granted above 8 to max there are probably going to be some distortions that effect the overall sound. But who out there loads up on stage, turns their amp on, turns volume up to 11, has the cabs to support said volume, and plays the gig?

If your eyeing a new thing, fine. I get it, but if your using the excuse of "wattage is overkill" I don't get it.

 

[Nuage420]

Whether everyone gets it or not I'll bet these 350s sell like hot cakes. The genzler 350 combos are great rigs and now Mesa fans can have a similar set up. I get the 350 instead of the 500 since the 500 to 800 isn't a huge jump. The pricing is probably going to bring more consumers into the market that didn't feel comfortable with the previous cost of entry.

 

[dbase]

It looked to me like "Son of WD800"

 

[agedhorse]

I'm with Jim on this. I really don't get the whole "800 watts is overkill". They have a volume knob.

Is it the old tube amp mentality that an amp has to be cranked to "sound" good? If you know anything about these high power amps now, it's not that way. They sound basically the same wether it's at 1 or 8. Granted above 8 to max there are probably going to be some distortions that effect the overall sound. But who out there loads up on stage, turns their amp on, turns volume up to 11, has the cabs to support said volume, and plays the gig?

If your eyeing a new thing, fine. I get it, but if your using the excuse of "wattage is overkill" I don't get it.

Some amps have output emulation algorithms that affect how the amp performs as they are driven hard. These types of amps will show differences the harder you drive them.

The preference for a smaller amp might also be for a combination of size, weight, feature set and cost. Different players prioritize needs differently.

 

[12bass]

Going to venture that most of the people interested in a D-800 or D-350 are primarily looking for a solid-state clean tone without much or any cranked "tube compression/overdrive" in the output section. As such, I also see little point to the notion of someone with limited means who already has a D-800 spending money on a D-350 for smaller gigs. Just turn the master down and - like magic - a D-800 becomes a D-5 or a D-50... or D-350! Who knew what sorcery could come from a volume potentiometer?!?

 

[agedhorse]

Going to venture that most of the people interested in a D-800 or D-350 are primarily looking for a solid-state clean tone without much or any cranked "tube compression/overdrive" in the output section. As such, I also see little point to the notion of someone with limited means who already has a D-800 spending money on a D-350 for smaller gigs. Just turn the master down and - like magic - a D-800 becomes a D-5 or a D-50... or D-350! Who knew what sorcery could come from a volume potentiometer?!?

Presumably, the choice may also be made for the other reasons I mentioned earlier (size, weight, fanless, cost), especially if they do not already own a D-800.

 

[Al Kraft]

The preference for a smaller amp might also be for a combination of size, weight, feature set and cost. Different players prioritize needs differently.

...and before anyone dismisses this thought too quickly, it might be worth noting that the D-800 is still a great seller in the SW line last I heard. And IMO that buying choice would likely be driven by people who prioritize size, weight, simplicity (a biggie for me in live performance amps), and/or value for the dollar very highly but don't want to sacrifice quality or reliability.

I own amps with lots of features, but find myself rarely needing all those features all that often. For a live gig the D-800 with very little knob turning (and maybe on occasion my HPF-Pre Series 3 which is always in my gig bag) handle things just fine. Full disclosure...I still love the TT and WD, but they are truly luxury items for me as I can feel good on most any gig with the D-800 for the type of music I play.

 

[12bass]

Presumably, the choice may also be made for the other reasons I mentioned earlier (size, weight, fanless, cost), especially if they do not already own a D-800.

Sure... plenty of reasons to get a D-350... but not many good ones if you already have a D-800 and limited means, thinking it is somehow better suited for smaller gigs. But if money's no object, then buy ALL of the amps!!!

 

[JohnnyBottom]

So am I less likely to blow my 4 ohm 2x8 cab with this head or my 800 watt head (cautiously used?) with a HPF ?
Size wise maybe 1inch smaller so really not the deciding factor...more a safety thought.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

Some amps have output emulation algorithms that affect how the amp performs as they are driven hard. These types of amps will show differences the harder you drive them.

The preference for a smaller amp might also be for a combination of size, weight, feature set and cost. Different players prioritize needs differently.

Some of us are the guy you’re always talking about who dimes the wrong knob at the worst possible time. I’ve never destroyed anything that way, but that’s largely because I know my own limitations, and I assume most problems are user error on my part.

I can’t completely idiot proof my rig, but fortunately I’m not a complete idiot.

 

[agedhorse]

So am I less likely to blow my 4 ohm 2x8 cab with this head or my 800 watt head (cautiously used?) with a HPF ?
Size wise maybe 1inch smaller so really not the deciding factor...more a safety thought.

Yes, IMO a smaller amp with a 4 ohm 2x8 would be a much safer choice IMO and IME.

 

[Yogi Bear]

I have one of these on order from Zzounds and it should be here this coming Thursday. Needless to say, this 100% ticks all boxes for me. I am in a new band that is just drums, keys, sax, and vocals. This with a small cab will be the perfect setup.

 

[Nuage420]

Yes, IMO a smaller amp with a 4 ohm 2x8 would be a much safer choice IMO and IME.

A 2x8 with a 350 sized groove and handle? Great idea!

 

[6thplanet]

Sure... plenty of reasons to get a D-350... but not many good ones if you already have a D-800 and limited means, thinking it is somehow better suited for smaller gigs. But if money's no object, then buy ALL of the amps!!!

My point (and probably Jim B's) exactly.

As far as volume induced algorithms, I can see that. How many find "their sound" at the 700 watt mark? ....and then think, damn, now I need a 350 (or whatever) watt amp that makes this exact sound at it's WOT setting so it's not quite as deafening as this 800 watt amp.

 

[Jim Bergantino]

My point (and probably Jim B's) exactly.

As far as volume induced algorithms, I can see that. How many find "their sound" at the 700 watt mark? ....and then think, damn, now I need a 350 (or whatever) watt amp that makes this exact sound at it's WOT setting so it's not quite as deafening as this 800 watt amp.

I think the “Getting your sound” at the rails of the amp are more analogous with tube amps and I believe why Jim Marshal and others came out with lower powered tube heads. To get the saturation and harmonics at non ear bleeding volume levels. But in the world of pedals and adjustable drive circuits, especially with solid state heads, you can achieve your desired tone at any volume level you desire, and why I don’t believe buying a lesser power class D head from a tonal perspective makes much sense, at least to me, vs just turning the volume down on a higher powered one. But that’s just my opinion. There are certainly many valid reasons to do so such as having a secondary back up amp as mentioned earlier. But to be clear, my opinions are solely based on the fact that you already own the more powerful version vs. just starting out and purchasing the amp best suited for your needs based on power and price.
Btw, didn’t mean to “hi jack” this thread so I’ll let it get back to the topic at hand. Another great creation from the pen of Andy!;-)

 

[JohnnyBottom]

A 2x8 with a 350 sized groove and handle? Great idea!

Yeah my Revsound vertical 2x8 is a great little cab, but thinking I should protect it from myself.

 

[Dr_Sleepy]

I’ve had a pair of Ampeg 210av cabs sitting in the corner. I’ve been reluctant to hook the WD800 up to them for fear of fry-age. In theory a D350 would make a convenient little rig, but I can’t help thinking Mesa’s new offering might free up some Magellan 350s around the world.

 

[Matt Power]

Good question, can't really answer about the cost because it's just a rough conceptual piece.
~175 watts at 8 ohms, 350 watts at 4 ohms, significantly smaller than the D-800 and potentially no fan.

Purely speculation of course.

Absolutely! I am shopping for an amp RIGHT NOW, CASH IN HAND. I am looking for:
Upright friendly. It has to have a piezo-friendly input. Why don't amp designers not make the input 10megs?
Hi-Pass filter
At least 200 watts into 8 ohms...

I just sold an Eich 900...OUTSTANDING electric bass amp, not great for upright. I sold my Mesa D-800. Made my DB sound like a P Bass...it had a baked in tone I couldn't dial out.
I LOVE the BAM...eq points are not flat, not enough headroom, PERFECT size footprint, no real mid control.

Can you make THAT amp??? One that is both DB AND EB friendly? Also, with the demise of EA, the Doubler is an amp that someone needs to design/emulate a replacement for. Is Mesa game to openly hop into and embrace the DB market in a super small rig format? I'd pay full retail for THAT! IMO, YMMV, etc

 

[dave64o]

... but I can’t help thinking Mesa’s new offering might free up some Magellan 350s around the world.

It could certainly free up some, but the Magellan 350's feature set is a little different. For example, it has a 3-band EQ instead of four but the mids have an adjustable center frequency that I like and use, and it has two contour curves for either a scooped sound (which I don't use) or for a more vintage-y low end roll off with low mid bump (love that with a slight bass boost!)

I owned a D-800 and now own a D-800+ (my favorite of my big heads) and absolutely love the Subway amps. But, having a Magellan 350 as well, I won't likely trade it for a D350, at least not at this point. I was very intrigued when I first saw it, and still am, simply because of how much I've liked the Subways I've owned. But, having thought a little more about it over the weekend, I don't think I'd make that trade yet. However, if I didn't already have the Magellan as my lower powered amp, that would be another story. I probably would have placed my order already!

It's great having so many choices to drool over, though it's sometimes frustrating because I obviously can't buy EVERY amp that looks appealing (well, not just amps, but any toy that turns my head). But I applaud Mesa for filling a spot in the line that meets some needs that aren't yet accounted for by the other models in the line. I think it should turn some new converts onto the Subway series.