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micro managing the kid's band...

#101
MarkMgibson said:
It's one of the more unusual threads I've read on a music forum, but it's been enlightening (for someone who doesn't have children). Surely it's not that big a deal though? Better a father who's doing a lot to help his kids out than one who has doesn't know what his kids are doing? At least he cares enough to get involved, and that's more than I can say for many parents.
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No. You have to walk a line. My wife's cousins were pushed really hard by their mother. I make my kids do all their homework, but this lady would make them do academic work all the time while my wife was enjoying her childhood. She had a grip on them like you wouldn't belive. One, at the age of 18 left the house and said he never wanted anything to do with her again. None of the familly knows where he is and the mother has since diied. The other got in trouble in CA and spent many years in Folsom prison and the third has 4 children by 4 different men.

You really need to know when to be there for them and when to back off. Let them experience life on thier on and steer them where they need to be.
 
#102
tycobb73 said:
No. You have to walk a line. My wife's cousins were pushed really hard by their mother. I make my kids do all their homework, but this lady would make them do academic work all the time while my wife was enjoying her childhood. She had a grip on them like you wouldn't belive. One, at the age of 18 left the house and said he never wanted anything to do with her again. None of the familly knows where he is and the mother has since diied. The other got in trouble in CA and spent many years in Folsom prison and the third has 4 children by 4 different men.

You really need to know when to be there for them and when to back off. Let them experience life on thier on and steer them where they need to be.
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That's true enough, I guess. I suppose I've just seen too many examples of parents who were the exact opposite, and the outcome was just the same, or worse.

My ex-wife and I chose not to have children, as we weren't willing to change our whole lifestyle to make such a commitment (just as well, since our marriage only lasted 10 years). It's a pity other people don't give more thought to the reasons why they want to have kids: curiosity, carrying on the family name, someone to look after them when they're old - all selfish reasons in my opinion.

Anyhow, I hope the OP has got the message. As for me, I have the best deal - wonderful nieces and nephews and none of the responsibly.

Regards,
MarkM
 
#103
Thrill-House said:
Sorry OP, but i gotta agree with the others. I did keep an open mind, but it really does seem like you are over stepping your bounds. If your son and his friends really were interested in this upcoming show, they would be working towards it themselves. From your posts, i would guess they are much less enthusiastic than you are about it, probably they dont want to do it at all. This should surprise you really, at that age its hard for kids to consistant work at something like music, which takes lots of practice and dedication to get the most out of. Hell even alot adults failt to become good musicians because they simply cant bring themselves to dedicate the time needed to become proficient.
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+1

This thread reminds me of that episode of South Park where the kids keep trying to throw their own little league games so they don't have to go to the play-offs and can, instead, enjoy their summers; however, the parents are much more invested in their kids going to the play-offs.
 
#104
tycobb73 said:
No. You have to walk a line. My wife's cousins were pushed really hard by their mother. I make my kids do all their homework, but this lady would make them do academic work all the time while my wife was enjoying her childhood. She had a grip on them like you wouldn't belive. One, at the age of 18 left the house and said he never wanted anything to do with her again. None of the familly knows where he is and the mother has since diied. The other got in trouble in CA and spent many years in Folsom prison and the third has 4 children by 4 different men.

You really need to know when to be there for them and when to back off. Let them experience life on thier on and steer them where they need to be.
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I bet you didn't know you made two Johnny Cash references in this post. :D
 
#106
Let me say this: I love you guys, thanks for all the responses and some of them are about as funny as you can get with the written word :-)

Also I will see your honey boo-boo and raise you a randy jackson...

Anyhow let me throw some more facts and figures out, because a lot of this discussion is not germane to the situation at hand.

All 4 kids want to do the talent show. Without a doubt, period. Nobody is forcing them to, they all want to. But, they don't drive cars and they (and their parents) have all kinds of other crap going on, so someone has to coordinate with the parents to practice. (Making sure that's okay with you guys who seem to subscribe to the "if you love something set it free and if it comes back to you, then you will be one with the universe" theory of decision making.)

Not sure I said this last time, but we ended up picking 2 songs that all 4 kids really like.

(And yes I am saying we, if you guys want to highlight the we's, the i's, the us, the them's, subjugate the verbs and count the tenses in all these posts, you may want to get off the computer sometime and go look for a job).

We played one of the songs the other day for the first time and when we were done the kids said, wow that sounded good! The singer is pumped up and wants to try to play acoustic during parts of the song. We are trying to stretch the guitar player into possibly singing on one song, but I will believe that when i see it.

The other song is going to be harder but, if we (again, if u go to your college or high school football game and somebody says "who's winning?" do you say we are winning or do you say the football players from this school are winning") can execute it in the ballpark of where it needs to be, it could be a contender, too.

The prize at this talent show is $1000. Not sure we can even be considered for that, first off we have to get past the audition, then get in the show, then get past the 3 judges to the final 5, then the text voting occurs. And we may be taken out anyways because we are a middle school act and then the 5 can all be high school acts (yeah I know middle school discrimination). And a thousand bucks is probably 10% of what I have in all of this lifetime, but who is counting. But it's a good motivator for them.

One last comment, and hopefully we can stretch this thread to 10 pages of nagging, and you guys won't believe me anyhow, but I don't think i am in the kid's band, I don't take vicarious pleasure trying to play in the kids band. If i try to play bass or drums or something in the basement its because another kid isn't there. I suck at bass and drums and the sooner i get off the instrument, the sooner everyone in the room's ears stop hurting. The best instrument I play is the cd player.

enjoying the discussion, thanks.
 
#108
You are of course entitled to do what you want and to take advice or not, you know the situation better than anyone, or at least you have the possibility of seeing it more clearly in is details and nuance.

Your dismissive and mildly insulting attitude to the opinions that are contrary to the ones you want to hear tell me things aren't so simple. But good luck luck whatever happens, and I don't mean I hope you win the competition, I mean I hope the kids get something from it and enjoy being in a band at least for a little while.

One more thing: words matter, they affect the way you and others look at situations and things and affect our attitudes to them. Start calling the band them and not us, the kids will be happier and it won't sound so creepy.
 
#110
One Drop said:
Your dismissive and mildly insulting attitude...
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One Drop (and to all): my apologies, my bad, sorry. I don't want to seem like a bigger *dork* than I already am, but it's probably too late for that, right? :-) Again, my apologies.

All right the two songs (and man i hate to give these away)...

Both are not exact covers, i.e. [DEL]we [/DEL] the kid's band are mixing them up some. the first one is 7 nation army but they start off softly on the first verse accompanied by an acoustic guitar (a la melanie martinez on the voice) and then they cut in with the electrics (a la jack white) and drop the hammer... i cant figure out a good way to transistion this so if you guys have any ideas, would like to hear them. it currently doesnt sound that good just going boom from acoustic straight into the loud electrics... maybe just a complete song re-start with the bass line, etc

second song is tougher and doesn't have a bass. barton hollow, civil wars: acoustic guitars, drummer has a 5 gallon bucket, a stick, and a rusty chain... hard part here is for the guitarists to play the song correctly (they need to practice a lot). then they have to work out the singing... or they could electrify the whole song but still the guitar has to be learned. the thought here is it shows some skills beyond their grade level if they can pull it off.

then when they audition, the audition judges pick the winner between the two.
 
#111
I'm a "music parent." Relax. You're probably doing OK. A high level of parental involvement wouldn't surprise anybody with kids who are playing classical music, or competitive team sports.

I was just talking to a friend today, whose son is learning to play the violin. We talked about the need to find a balance between pushing too hard, or just leaving kids to their own devices. My view is that a fair amount of push is OK, but is easier if the kids start at a young age. I was pushed. Today, I love playing music, and am grateful for my parents being involved.

Perhaps there's a bit of a disconnect because we're talking about rock 'n' roll. Members of my generation don't remember our parents getting involved in our rock bands, because they either hated rock, or didn't take it seriously.
 
#114
My parents used to say, "the police are here again". We had one of those horrible neighbours who phoned the cops even when we were playing on a Saturday afternoon. We used to point out that everyone was using lawn mowers, whipper snippers, etc. My parents were both arbitrators, and argued our case most of the time. Then we'd turn it up really loud.
 
#117
new2bassguitar said:
One Drop (and to all): my apologies, my bad, sorry. I don't want to seem like a bigger *dork* than I already am, but it's probably too late for that, right? :-) Again, my apologies.

All right the two songs (and man i hate to give these away)...

Both are not exact covers, i.e. [DEL]we [/DEL] the kid's band are mixing them up some. the first one is 7 nation army but they start off softly on the first verse accompanied by an acoustic guitar (a la melanie martinez on the voice) and then they cut in with the electrics (a la jack white) and drop the hammer... i cant figure out a good way to transistion this so if you guys have any ideas, would like to hear them. it currently doesnt sound that good just going boom from acoustic straight into the loud electrics... maybe just a complete song re-start with the bass line, etc

second song is tougher and doesn't have a bass. barton hollow, civil wars: acoustic guitars, drummer has a 5 gallon bucket, a stick, and a rusty chain... hard part here is for the guitarists to play the song correctly (they need to practice a lot). then they have to work out the singing... or they could electrify the whole song but still the guitar has to be learned. the thought here is it shows some skills beyond their grade level if they can pull it off.

then when they audition, the audition judges pick the winner between the two.
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I still say "our" band sometimes and sometimes say "the" band, and I haven't played in two years. Depends on the subject matter and the audience.

My kids rock hard, and I'm proud to be a band Dad!
 
#118
My parents had me in piano lessons from a very early age. By age 8 I was taking theory classes with 12 year olds. I remember my mom putting an egg timer on the piano and setting it for 15 minutes and forcing me to practice for that 15 minutes every day. I hated them for it. 15 minutes is a long time for a kid esp. one that is staring out the window wondering if his buddies are having fun playing ball or riding bikes.

By 3rd grade I couldn't take it anymore. I told them I'm not playing anymore and you can't make me. They said OK you don't have to play the piano but we want you to play an instrument. I played my Dad's old trumpet for a year or two in the school band and then switched to guitar(a 3/4 size classical I still have). By 6th grade I was tired of the guitar and much to my delight my parents let me quit music altogether.

Fast forward to Freshman year in H.S. My friend got a cheap electric, an amp and a Big Muff fuzz box. I was blown away and had my first GAS attack ever and asked for an electric guitar for Xmas. My parents were happy I was interested in playing music again and got me a guitar(1980 Fender Lead II, now vintage and I still have it, needs a fret job BAD!), a Vibro Champ amp(wish I still had that!), and some lessons.

A year later I was playing in a band. My parents were still paying for lessons and giving me rides but they nor any of the other parents were involved in the band beyond that.

I think back on the piano days now and though I hated them for it at the time, I now thank them for giving me that exposure to music in my early formative years that has served me well in all my musical endeavors since. I also thank them for backing off by my Jr. High years and letting me do my own thing.
 

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