MM Stingray vs Fender Jazz???

[Eublet]

The OP posed the question what would YOU choose to play. I'm not sure why you keep trying to steer things around to what you would play when you're being paid to play somebody else's music. Of course, in that case, you'd play what they tell you to play. That doesn't really have anything to do with the question of "what would YOU choose?"

The scenario of "you are being paid to play somebody else's music" is, I suspect, a VERY SMALL portion of the total combined playing that is done by all the TB members put together.

I disagree completely. On the local scene, most people who ask you to come play, sit in, or be a part of a band don't have in mind the instrument they want you to bring and play. All they know is they want it to sound good and fit when you show up. It's difficult to know what their expectations are when they probably can't voice them either, but there are always expectations. Sometimes you can just show up with any instrument, play and they'll be happy. Other times not so much. There is no rule book to navigate by in every situation that guarantees success, however I'm strongly confident that playing nothing but a Stingray would be severely limiting over the long term simply because it just isn't the tone most people have in mind when they are looking for a bass player. Others will love it. I've experienced it both ways with Stingrays. The tone of the Ray was so intoxicating for me personally that it became hard for me to enjoy playing anything else, yet I had situations where other people wanted something else. Ultimately I had to quit playing them because I just felt like I was becoming selfish with hearing what I wanted.

The light bulb really went on for me once when I was part of a live recording where I used a Ray. I remember thinking how killer the stage sound was, but listening back on the recording the Ray was just all in your face. The bass itself still sounded great on the recording to me, but it was almost like it was a featured instrument. It didn't fit the vibe and I realized how offensive it was in the mix. The sound guy who was listening back on the recording with me was very polite and said nothing, until I made a comment about how the bass wasn't sitting back under the band as I felt it should for that genre of music. He simply said something like "Yeah, I cut a lot of mids out and boosted the low mids but it still has a presence that is not as easy to control." That was his way of saying he was fighting the instrument. Literally the next live event I brought a P bass and everything was perfect. I still enjoyed the tone on stage, but the band mix was perfect and the instrument sat right where it needed. Sound guy was stoked also.

That's just one example, but it goes both ways. A friend who is a guitar player had me come over and lay down a track for one song he was doing, and he specifically asked for the Ray because he had heard me play it out a bunch of times. It worked fantastic for that.

Not saying it's one way or another. All instruments can have their place. There is no need to be dogmatic about it, which is why I pushed back initially on this notion that "Rays and Wals are somehow better and more flexible" when there is just no evidence of that, and if anything evidence leans in the other direction though I don't buy that either.

 

[Twobass]

I've had both and I prefer the Jazz Deluxe. I didn't like the SR's wide neck and it's a little bit heavier than the Jazz.

 

[Geri O]

I'm glad I work with a more open-minded group of people. Well, that may not be a fair statement...

When I'm asked to play, more often than not, I'm asked to bring the Stingray because of its character and the way it sits in a mix, both live and recorded. I've been reading the negative comments about how the Ray sits in the mix and I became concerned that perhaps the people I was working with would rather I play something else. So I asked the two groups and the church band director about their feelings of the Ray's sound and I had not one negative response. Everyone loves the Ray. Even our pick-the-world-apart Worship Production producer loves it. He even noticed one Sunday when the strings were slightly dead and I was trying to get a few more miles out of them. He thought it was missing the personality that he likes, which didn't really bother me at the time.

Of course, we all have different needs and we work with people with varying expectations, so I'm not proclaiming that the Ray should be embraced by everyone, not at all. I'm just happy that my favorite bass sound in the world is accepted and liked by the folks I work with.

I wonder what they are going to say when I whip out the Alembic Series 1 on them... I'm actually taking it tonight, along with the Ray, to the church-wide "jam session".

 

[Eublet]

Yeah, I received the most compliments about my Stingrays in a church/worship setting.

 

[StuartV]

I disagree completely.

Can you please identify exactly what it is, in the post you responded to, that you are disagreeing with??

 

[Eublet]

Can you please identify exactly what it is, in the post you responded to, that you are disagreeing with??

I disagree with me turning this towards situations where I'm being paid to play. Choosing the right instrument is a part of all situations to me. Of course some situations allow a person more room to experiment.

 

[Selta]

I've never had an issue getting a Sterling, Stingray or Bongo to work with any band. It all comes down to your ability to play, understand gain structures and EQ. I won't claim that my Bongo 6 HS sounds like a P with flats, but I can make it work in a band where a P with flats is generally sought. And without issue too.
Every pay-to-play situation I've been in, the people couldn't care less with what I had shown up with. They told me what they were going for and wanted from me, and I made it happen. Always got great compliments after and many call backs.
In my normal band too, I play my Bongos and my Sterlings. Not a single issue. We must be doing something right too, as we regularly play to 2000+

 

[Geri O]

I've never had an issue getting a Sterling, Stingray or Bongo to work with any band. It all comes down to your ability to play, understand gain structures and EQ. I won't claim that my Bongo 6 HS sounds like a P with flats, but I can make it work in a band where a P with flats is generally sought. And without issue too.
Every pay-to-play situation I've been in, the people couldn't care less with what I had shown up with. They told me what they were going for and wanted from me, and I made it happen. Always got great compliments after and many call backs.
In my normal band too, I play my Bongos and my Sterlings. Not a single issue. We must be doing something right too, as we regularly play to 2000+

I know I posted an attitude similar to this, but I do understand that some producers (in fact, a LOT in Nashville, from what I'm told by acquaintances there) and band leaders prefer and insist on Fender Precisions. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be flexible and not play the bass my contractor or employer requests me to play (unless he likes old Ventura basses...). The bass sound or track is the producer's track to do with what he pleases after I'm gone.

I'm just saying that I'm REALLY glad the folks I work with like my Ray. As musicians for hire, we should be prepared to play whatever the employer wishes and I believe on whatever instrument they prefer.

It does pays to be flexible (literally).

 

[StuartV]

As musicians for hire, we should be prepared to play whatever the employer wishes and I believe on whatever instrument they prefer.

Exactly. And when there is not an employer telling me what to play, then I get to choose (which is what the long-necrotic OP asked about). And when I get to choose, my choice is based, not on what I sound like to myself. It's based on all the other bands I've listened to, because I know that generally what the bassist hears of themselves has little relation to what the audience hears.

And when I reflect on all the bands I've ever listened to in person, I notice that if the band has a P bass or a Stingray or Sterling, then about 90% of the time, that bass is going to sound good to me, in the mix. No matter what kind of music it is. But, if it's a Jazz bass, then it's more like a 50/50 thing. It seems like about half the time, when I'm listening to a band with a J, the bass will sound good in the mix, but the other half of the time, the J will just sound like complete mud. The kind of tone where you can listen for the bass and you can hear a really deep tone, that may even be louder than the rest of the band, and that you know is the bass, but yet it's so muddy and indistinct that you can't even pick out exactly when the bass is actually plucking each string or even exactly what notes the bassist is playing.

My feeling is probably also influenced by having gigged a lot on drums in different kinds of cover and blues bands. I never really had much regard for what kind of bass was being played until one night at rehearsal with one of my old bands. The bass player in that band normally played a Jazz V, which is what he was playing on this particular night. Until... we were in the middle of playing through some song and I suddenly realized the bass sounded different somehow. It sounded ballsier or meatier or something. Definitely "better" (to me, of course). I looked over and discovered that the bass player had switched to his P bass before the last song and I just hadn't noticed.

I bought my first P bass soon thereafter and sold the J that I had, not too long after that. I bought a Sadowsky Jazz V some time after that. I kept it for a while. It sounded AWESOME - by itself. But, it just didn't really cut through a mix like I wanted, so I ended up selling it and then discovering a Stingray 5 and then a Sterling 5.

And it's that experience that a P or a Stingray or Sterling ALMOST ALWAYS sounds good in a mix (judging other people's sound - not my own), where other basses are noticeably less reliable to sound good in a mix (again, my opinion of other people's sound - not trying to judge myself) is what leads me to conclude that Ps and SR/STs are what I consider the most versatile basses.

I have actually seen other bassists post here on TB that bass should be FELT and not heard. I expect that people who think that way would have a completely different opinion than mine. To me, a bass is a musical, melodic instrument, not a drum. I want anybody that cares to listen to my playing to hear the actual notes I'm playing. I want to be HEARD. AND felt (I am a bass player, after all!).

 

[Eublet]

I've never had an issue getting a Sterling, Stingray or Bongo to work with any band. It all comes down to your ability to play, understand gain structures and EQ. I won't claim that my Bongo 6 HS sounds like a P with flats, but I can make it work in a band where a P with flats is generally sought. And without issue too.
Every pay-to-play situation I've been in, the people couldn't care less with what I had shown up with. They told me what they were going for and wanted from me, and I made it happen. Always got great compliments after and many call backs.
In my normal band too, I play my Bongos and my Sterlings. Not a single issue. We must be doing something right too, as we regularly play to 2000+

Most instrument with a neck-forward pickup can get close enough to copying that P bass thing in a mix, so +1 to this.

 

[Eublet]

And when I reflect on all the bands I've ever listened to in person, I notice that if the band has a P bass or a Stingray or Sterling, then about 90% of the time, that bass is going to sound good to me, in the mix. No matter what kind of music it is. But, if it's a Jazz bass, then it's more like a 50/50 thing. It seems like about half the time, when I'm listening to a band with a J, the bass will sound good in the mix, but the other half of the time, the J will just sound like complete mud. The kind of tone where you can listen for the bass and you can hear a really deep tone, that may even be louder than the rest of the band, and that you know is the bass, but yet it's so muddy and indistinct that you can't even pick out exactly when the bass is actually plucking each string or even exactly what notes the bassist is playing.

I'd agree with this also, with the caveat being that it the Stingray has to be the classic design with a single a pickup, not the newer HS or HH models which I've found to be too heavy sounding and muddy quite often. They kind of have that Jazz bass issue you mentioned, but kicked up another knotch.

A J bass can definitely be made to sound worse more quickly. I think favoring the bridge pickup ever so slightly can alleviate much of this by providing more of that back bridge growl.

Still, I've seen environments and situations where a J bass totally killed both P and Ray style instruments in the same venue/mix/band/etc. That's why I was saying earlier that I don't believe there is any rule or one-size-fits-all. I also know for a fact from personal experience that a P or Ray can be made to sound bad pretty easily with very little work in some situations, and a single pickup instrument is not the panacea that some other folks on TB make them out to be (not that I'm suggesting you've done that here because you haven't).

 

[Jim C]

Well, from my experience, it is really apples to oranges
I liked the musicman looks, the tone I got playing live. The necks are wonderful. The design is well thought out.

They are always received well and I've never lost a gig playing one. Plus there are so many options to mod them to get your tone that its insane. With a musicman, your stuck with their tone, and their ideas. Having a Jazz opens up a world of possibilities.

So, my 2 cents. If you have to have just one bass, it should be a Jazz.

+1
I have 2 of each (both old and newish)
MM has a unique sound
Desert island bass is a Jazz

 

[catgut]

Fender Jazz players should play a Sabre. All I'm sayin'… I don't care for Stingrays but I have played a Sabre for over 23 years. Maybe longer. I also need to grab a Jazz for rounding out my sounds. But I have always found the pups quite thin. The body is amazing. I have never owned one long enough to really tweak though. I really want a Sadowsky J/J instead.

 

[Webtroll]

I prefer the tone of the SR over the Jazz, but then I'm not a huge Jazz fan. Looks are about on par; both are classic styles. Ease of play depends on the individual bass and the setup. Weight can vary greatly, although from the Jazz basses and SRs I've played I'd give the Jazz a small edge, but only across the board; you need to have one of each in hand and the difference will apply to them but not to 2 others chosen at random. Build quality, a decent edge to the SR, but as of late Fender's build quality is easily on par with MM's.

 

[catgut]

MM's build as of late has been quite shite if you ask me. I wont buy a new one.

 

[Yango]

...tHe...ThReAd...ThAt...WoUlDn'T...dIe...

 

[catgut]

...tHe...ThReAd...ThAt...WoUlDn'T...dIe...

Lol. Hilarious.

 

[NeonVomit]

So I'm in the market for a new 5-string, and looked at both the MM Stingray 5 and the Fender American Deluxe Jazz 5. Fender was about 1,500 GBP and MM was 1,600 GBP. Had a good old noodle about on both of them through a MarkBass combo on flat. Here are the conclusions I arrived at:

-Jazz was lighter. The finishing was a bit more 'boutique', I really liked the black binding on the neck.
-MM had a 'brighter' sound. I don't know if it was that the strings were newer, or the sound of the bass, but it definitely had more 'brilliance' to it.
-Jazz was more versatile. There were definitely more options to play around with, and the passive/active switch was nice.
-MM was quieter. Although this might have something to do with the shielding issue that I've heard about active Jazz basses having.

The action on either wasn't to my liking but I'm quite picky when it comes to that - I did not let that influence my decision. The neck on both was nice and comfortable - I could rock both of them.

Basically, playing the Jazz reminded me of Geezer Butler, and the Stingray sounded more aggressive. I couldn't really change the sound that much, but it sounded exactly like itself. I couldn't get a really brilliant piano-like tone out of the Jazz, but could out of the MM - again, something to do with the strings, I suspect.

Which one would I rather get? I have a feeling the Jazz would suit me better, but I also suspect the MM would sit in the mix better.

 

[Guinness20]

Just went through this exact decision two months ago. Decided the passive jazz tone wasn't for me, to the point it would always have been on active. So, I started considering the jazz as an active, and comparing the two the stingray blew it out the water. Now proud owner of 3eq 4hh stingray

 

[Selta]

Neon - it's impossible for us to tell you which to get. You sound like you took your time with both and have what you feel are pros and cons for each. Only you know you band(s) and gig(s) that you play in, and how each would work in those situations. Some quick observations I can give you though:
1) "Flat" on a markbass is not all knobs pointing to noon. I'm not sure how you set the amp, but especially with the VLE and VPF noon is definitely not parity . Since both were played with the same setting though, this could be largely ignored, even though it certainly may have had tonal influence.
2) Which EBMM did you play? Stingray 5 H I presume? I would definitely suggest that you try out a Stingray 5 HS and HH, as well as a Sterling 5 HH and 5 HS.

I also note that you feel you couldn't take out the aggressiveness of the 'Ray, which IMO is fairly easy to do with the onboard EQ, IMO.

Just some thoughts to put into your head . Still can't tell you which way to go. For me, I'd go EBMM; I was in your exact same boat about 6 years ago and that was the route I went, and I'm more than happy I did.