• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Modulus Mob

So, finally said to myself, "Why the hell not?" My beloved 1991 Q6 recently survived neck surgery thanks to the brilliant work of Jerry Dorsch, but this is a battle-scarred and -hardened instrument, and I never intended to keep it "original" or "pristine." Too damn late for that (bought it in the mid-1990s second-hand). Anyhow, I took it to a talented local tech, who did some nice delicate work, and now it has a Graph Tech Ghost Bridge Hexpander system in it. I was literally (or virtually) just playing an expressive cello on (or through) my Modulus. I need to do some fine-tuning of my Roland GR-55, but so far so good. Anyone else done this, with a Modulus or other instrument?

IMG_2756.jpg
 
So, finally said to myself, "Why the hell not?" My beloved 1991 Q1 recently survived neck surgery thanks to the brilliant work of Jerry Dorsch, but this is a battle-scarred and -hardened instrument, and I never intended to keep it "original" or "pristine." Too damn late for that (bought it in the mid-1990s second-hand). Anyhow, I took it to a talented local tech, who did some nice delicate work, and now it has a Graph Tech Ghost Bridge Hexpander system in it. I was literally (or virtually) just playing an expressive cello on (or through) my Modulus. I need to do some fine-tuning of my Roland GR-55, but so far so good. Anyone else done this, with a Modulus or other instrument?

View attachment 2967985

Is that some sort of synth output or something?

Looks cool, and sounds cool from what you’ve said, but I’d be way too afraid to do hat to an instrument. I freaked out when I chipped the paint on a <$200 Sammick Bass. Getting routing done on a Modulus would probably kill me.
 
So, finally said to myself, "Why the hell not?" My beloved 1991 Q6 recently survived neck surgery thanks to the brilliant work of Jerry Dorsch, but this is a battle-scarred and -hardened instrument, and I never intended to keep it "original" or "pristine." Too damn late for that (bought it in the mid-1990s second-hand). Anyhow, I took it to a talented local tech, who did some nice delicate work, and now it has a Graph Tech Ghost Bridge Hexpander system in it. I was literally (or virtually) just playing an expressive cello on (or through) my Modulus. I need to do some fine-tuning of my Roland GR-55, but so far so good. Anyone else done this, with a Modulus or other instrument?

View attachment 2967985

Not my Modulus but i use Gr-55 with my Godin A4 which has the built in pick-up. Lot of fun sounds to play with. You'll find that some track better than others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carsbybigd
Is that some sort of synth output or something?

Looks cool, and sounds cool from what you’ve said, but I’d be way too afraid to do hat to an instrument. I freaked out when I chipped the paint on a <$200 Sammick Bass. Getting routing done on a Modulus would probably kill me.
Yup, that's exactly what it is. A 13-pin midi out linked to a Graph Tech Ghost Bridge system. The actual bridge is a Hipshot A-style, loaded with Graph Tech piezo saddles, which are wired into a circuit board in the control cavity. That produces midi-note output that feeds into my Roland GR-55 guitar synth. I can now play all of the GR-55 synth patches, as well as all of my soft-synth programs (e.g., Native Instruments Kontakt, Massive, Absynth, etc.), from my Modulus Q6. I literally just got it back today, from this great guitar tech where I live, and so far it's been fun as hell.

At the same time, I totally get where you're coming from. I've had this Modulus since the mid-1990s, and it's super special, but a few years back it developed the textbook 15-year neck relief, presumably due to the original phenolic fingerboard material shrinking and pulling the carbon fiber out of kilter. My only real option was some radical surgery (compliments of Modulus co-founder Jerry Dorsch) to replace the fretboard and install a truss rod. At that point, I figured I had crossed the Rubicon in terms of keeping it pristine and original, so I decided to rig it out with a midi system.
 
Not my Modulus but i use Gr-55 with my Godin A4 which has the built in pick-up. Lot of fun sounds to play with. You'll find that some track better than others.
Interesting! The only reason I have a GR-55 is that I got a tax refund some years back and decided to buy a GR-55 and a GK pickup for my cheap but beloved Mexican-made Strat. I then took a further step by buying a Godin Freeway guitar with SynthAccess (or whatever they call it). In other words, a built-in Graph Tech Hexpander system. Anyhoo, I was intrigued. (And by the way, I am totally NOT a guitar player.) So for many years now I've wanted to see how this system would work on a 6-string bass. Et viola! Now I'm starting to discover how. And you are TOTALLY correct that some track better than others. It's a very strange experience. What I was looking forward to was playing classic synth bass sounds using real bass articulations. I'm starting to discover that it's not so easy to pull that off. The synth bass patches (in the GR-55 or in virtual instruments) still play like they are being played by a keyboard, so you ain't getting any dead notes or percussive effects. I had guessed as much beforehand, but I'm experiencing it now. Still and all, the patches that blend the bass pups with a synth tone are really fun and interesting. Meanwhile, I'm supposed to be working on my "jazzer" playing, so I hope I haven't bought myself a total distraction from "keeping it real."
 
  • Like
Reactions: carsbybigd
Is that some sort of synth output or something?

Looks cool, and sounds cool from what you’ve said, but I’d be way too afraid to do hat to an instrument. I freaked out when I chipped the paint on a <$200 Sammick Bass. Getting routing done on a Modulus would probably kill me.
I should also mention that the really great guitar tech who installed this system said that the routing and especially the Dremel carving of the midi jack plate was totally "hairy." He was super worried about messing it up but did a fantastic job. It ain't easy to carve out a recessed midi jack plate from swamp ash. So, yeah: once again, I totally agree with where you're coming from. My Q6 has had some hard knocks, so it was an easier decision to make. But when I look at some of the Modulii I've seen on this thread, I can totally imagine thinking, "No freaking way. I am NOT going to risk marring this great work of art and design." Full disclosure here: I paid about $1200 for this Q6, second-hand, back in maybe 1995 (built in 1991). I remember when it originally showed up in the major music store here in town, around 1991. It sold for about $2300. That was absolutely the outer limit, back then, for what a bass should or could cost. Unless you were collecting Alembics, you would never be able to wrap your mind around that price back then. But the moment I saw that thing, even with its $2300 price tag, I knew it was a work of vision and genius (props to Geoff Gould and Jerry Dorsh, et al. Geniuses!!!). Anyhow, yeah, I get it. I literally have a "travel bass," even though I am not a professional, but I understand that certain instruments are works of art and genius, and need to be safeguarded and protected. In this case, I took a risk, but the underlying instrument, even though I've "tampered" with it, is like some crazy "Platonic Ideal" of a bass. It's just really a remarkable accomplishment by Gould, et al. So much so that, even when I tamper with it, it maintains its core qualities, its material excellence.
 
So, end of day one with my new Modulus Q6-based midi system: a Graph Tech Ghost bridge and Hexpander driving a Roland GR-55. Made lots of discoveries and had some suspicions/second-hand knowledge confirmed.

First, the obvious parts: B-string tracking is pretty worthless for PCM (i.e., synth) sounds unless you're playing very long and slow notes, especially below the 7th fret. (But we all knew that.) What I find interesting is that a lot of people I see on YouTube don't seem to understand the difference between the PCM component, which is basically a pure midi note triggering a synth tone, and the modeling and pickup component, which is more like effects applied to an analog signal. I see people playing stuff, and they say, "It tracks great!" But in many cases, especially if any low frequencies are involved, they're hearing a "COSM" sound that is mainly a "live" signal or a modeled tone (which track perfectly) mixed with a PCM tone (which does not). When you hear the two elements together, however, it sounds okay.

So, second-hand knowledge confirmed: a midi bass setup like this works best when it's blending "real" analog tones with a PCM tone. When the crummy tracking that makes PCM-only sounds start to glitch comes into play in this scenario, who cares? Because the analog part is still coming through. Listen closely, however, and you discover that your PCM Mini Moog bass layer is glitching hard in the lower registers.

So that brings me to the next part: if you want to play a pure PCM sound on a rig like this, brace yourself. Say, for example, you're like me: son of a jazz keyboard player, grew up with a Fender Rhodes in the house, etc., and you want to play some nice chords on your new midi bass rig. Well, that requires some serious tweaking: string sensitivity, damper pedal mode, on and on. It is pretty cool when you get it close to dialed in. You can bang through the chords to Stella by Starlight and use the controller pedal as a sustain pedal: hit the chord, stand on the pedal, and play some tasty keyboard licks over top of the chords. Problem is, the tracking gets more glitchy the lower the actual pitch coming from the string. So if you're playing riffs on the A to C strings, you're mostly going to be fine, but things start to get wobbly on the A, even wobblier on the E, and pretty much suck on the B string.

I'm okay with the fact that you have to basically articulate (i.e., pick) every note: slides and slurs don't mean much to a PCM Fender Rhodes patch. You just get a glitchy "Huh?" from the synth. But wow. The tracking quality diminishes so significantly once you get to the E and the B, and is even flirting with glitchiness on the A, that you start to feel constrained. I seriously said to myself today: Hell, I should just learn to play keyboard.

Lastly, here's an interesting idea I tried out. Said to myself: Okay, this thing has serious problems tracking low frequencies. Makes sense. It's lower cycles per second, harder to read. So what if you swapped out your lower strings with higher strings? Instead of a B string at 120, put on a D string and tune it down to a B (octave of the real thing). Then, just set your synth to play that string an octave lower. Easy peasy. Then, what the heck? You may as well do the same with the E string! Put on a G string and tune it down to an E (octave of the real thing). Same with the A string: put on a C and tune it down to an A (octave of the real thing). You would now have a six-string stringed as follows: D, G, C, D, G, C! Sounds crazy, but it should work! Just go in and tune the lower D, G, C to B, E, A (because you can do this with a midi instrument). Great idea in theory, but guess what? The Graph Tech saddles hook up to a circuit board that has assigned frequency ranges for each string. Doh! So you can't rig your bass up this way, either. It actually works until about the 17th fret, after which the circuit board flakes out and you get nothing. Otherwise, it freaking works like a charm! You can totally play pure synth (PCM) sounds and get superb tracking and articulation without glitching.

Anyhow, sorry for the long ramble. I've spent a whole day messing with this new setup just to find myself thinking, Why don't you just stick to bass?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmike2010
Question re: a Modulus TBX5. Anyone know how involved it would be to add a gloss finish to the back of the neck? The owner had the bass refinished and then had the back of the neck "knocked down" to a satin finish...

I'm asking for a "friend" of course... :cool:
I know when I had my Q6SS refretted, there were some dings in the neck that had to be repaired as well. When I got it back, it was "matte finished". I sold the bass because of it. Couldn't live with it like that. new owner loved it. Pretty involved from what I understand. Maybe we could hear from Geoff on this one
 
  • Like
Reactions: japhy4529
I know when I had my Q6SS refretted, there were some dings in the neck that had to be repaired as well. When I got it back, it was "matte finished". I sold the bass because of it. Couldn't live with it like that. new owner loved it. Pretty involved from what I understand. Maybe we could hear from Geoff on this one

Ouch... I ended up pulling the trigger on the one with the cocobolo top that was listed on Reverb... Modulus Graphite TBX-5 5-String Neck-Thru Bass Guitar

I was hoping it would be pretty straightforward to add a gloss finish back to the neck. Of course, this is not your run-of-the-mill neck... I should have asked this question first! I just didn't want to miss out yet again on a TBX as I've wanted one for a while now and I definitely don't have the cha-ching to pony up for a new one. I REALLY don't like the satin finish on the neck though. Of course, I haven't played it yet, but just the look of it makes me start to twitch.... Well, I'll see what other information I get. If it's a no-go for adding a gloss finish, I'll be putting this one up for sale around the time it gets to me from CA. Maybe it won't matter to someone else...

Thanks for the quick response.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iriegnome
fwiw when I sent my Q6 SPX back to Modulus to fix the dreaded 20-year-neck-warp (this was around 2008 or 2010) they refinished the back of the neck from gloss to satin...without my asking for it, and without them even alerting me that they were going to do this!

If I hadn't liked it I would have been seriously pissed.

But I love the feel of the satin!
 
You may really like it though. Don't be put off by my dislike of it. Different strokes you know.. IMHO, I hated the look which probably made the feel even worse for me.

No, I was already at the point of disliking the look of satin finishes (especially on this bass). I just figured it would be easy to have a competent shop at another gloss finish. I’m hoping that’s the case. If not, I’ll still plug her in and see what’s what. I emailed Tony with Planet Bass to see what, if anything can be done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iriegnome
fwiw when I sent my Q6 SPX back to Modulus to fix the dreaded 20-year-neck-warp (this was around 2008 or 2010) they refinished the back of the neck from gloss to satin...without my asking for it, and without them even alerting me that they were going to do this!

If I hadn't liked it I would have been seriously pissed.

But I love the feel of the satin!

Wow! That’s crazy. I wonder if that was the only way to fix the neck-warping issue?
 
Question re: a Modulus TBX5. Anyone know how involved it would be to add a gloss finish to the back of the neck? The owner had the bass refinished and then had the back of the neck "knocked down" to a satin finish...

I'm asking for a "friend" of course... :cool:
It depends on how the satin finish was achieved. If it started as a gloss finish that was then "de-glossed" with some type of abrasive (sandpaper, steel wool, scotchbrite, etc.) then it can be buffed back to a gloss finish using the usual finish polishing techniques; this is assuming there's still enough finish thickness there.

From your description, I would assume this is what was done. Also, this is the "problem" with the DIY-satin-neck-via-sandpaper approach; a sanded gloss finish will return to gloss with playing wear, so you have to re-do the sanding from time to time.

So, assuming yours was sanded to satin, you could just play the heck out of it and it'll eventually end up pretty glossy again ;)

If the bass was actually sprayed with a satin clear, it would have to be stripped and refinished with a gloss clear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: japhy4529
It depends on how the satin finish was achieved. If it started as a gloss finish that was then "de-glossed" with some type of abrasive (sandpaper, steel wool, scotchbrite, etc.) then it can be buffed back to a gloss finish using the usual finish polishing techniques; this is assuming there's still enough finish thickness there.

From your description, I would assume this is what was done. Also, this is the "problem" with the DIY-satin-neck-via-sandpaper approach; a sanded gloss finish will return to gloss with playing wear, so you have to re-do the sanding from time to time.

So, assuming yours was sanded to satin, you could just play the heck out of it and it'll eventually end up pretty glossy again ;)

If the bass was actually sprayed with a satin clear, it would have to be stripped and refinished with a gloss clear.

Thanks, Bruce. The seller noted in the ad that the entire bass was refinished. Afterwards, the neck was “knocked down” to a satin finish. I’m thinking this means it was sanded down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iriegnome