Musicians Relief Fund........two years and counting

[bongomania]

on August 17, 2006, I received $1,048.38 (via paypal). Of these funds, $225 went to filings with the Ohio Secretary of State. $68.25 went towards an official record book. ...This leaves $755.13. I do, however, need to file a Certificate of Dissolution, which requires a $50.00 filing fee, and notification of at least four state and local public offices. ...if I could hold off on any final distribution until after I hear from those agencies, that would be appreciated. I would not be surprised if we encounter $50-$100 in additional fees...

Ah! Sorry if I'm being dense, but are you confirming the donations were not in fact spent/"lost" by Mike? I ask because there's a big difference between dropping the ball on a fund without actually losing any of it, and stealing.

 

[MikeBass]

I am doubtful that we will see any involvement from Mike on this thread. But here is what I can add.

By my records (which I can fax to anyone, if they want to confirm the specifics), on August 17, 2006, I received $1,048.38 (via paypal). Of these funds, $225 went to filings with the Ohio Secretary of State. $68.25 went towards an official record book. I checked with the accountant, and even though I know for a fact that he spent a good bit of time working on this, he is not charging us anything. We never did file with the IRS, so no fees expended, there.

This leaves $755.13. I do, however, need to file a Certificate of Dissolution, which requires a $50.00 filing fee, and notification of at least four state and local public offices. There is the possibility of having to owe additional fees, if any one of these offices believes that we should have filed something with them (like an annual corporate tax return), but did not.

So, if I could hold off on any final distribution until after I hear from those agencies, that would be appreciated. I would not be surprised if we encounter $50-$100 in additional fees, but I doubt that it would exceed this amount.

Tom.

Ah! Sorry if I'm being dense, but are you confirming the donations were not in fact spent/"lost" by Mike? I ask because there's a big difference between dropping the ball on a fund without actually losing any of it, and stealing.

Good work Tom.
And like others, I'm truly sorry that you had to be caught in the middle of this junk.

So of the $755, there may be aprox $600-700 left.

Wold I be out of line by saying that I think you owe yourself a bottle of scotch for all this crap????
I'm not sure if anyone here would really mind you buying yourself one (and maybe a pizza from hell too!!), just not the good stuff.
Maybe Cutty Sark. 'Cause we know how you like the "good" stuff!!!

I'm not sure if this accounts for all of it, I'm really bad at the math end of this whole thing, but it seems like this figure is pretty good for now.
I think that even though Mike Dub-Ya may have left this in a bit of dis-array to say the least, I think this may pull him out of the mind set of some as being a thief and taking advantage of people.
If anything he sent a good chunk of coin to Tom.

Now, if there is more that is unaccounted for, then I'm sure we'll find it.

 

[tombowlus]

Well, I had said early on that Mike had sent me $900 or so for filing fees and related expenses. It turns out he sent a tad bit more. And thankfully, the accountant is not charging us for any of his time, and we never did need to incur that federal filing fee. So, yes! We have 'saved' some of the money!

For the record, it is my sincere opinion that Mike Winnen did not steal or take any of the money for his own use. I can't prove it, but that's my honest gut take on it.

Tom.

 

[MikeBass]

For the record, it is my sincere opinion that Mike Winnen did not steal or take any of the money for his own use. I can't prove it, but that's my honest gut take on it.

Tom.

+1

 

[BassyBill]

I'm very pleased to say that this is sounding more and more like a breakdown in communication than anything else, which has to be good news.

It also seems like a lot of this could have been avoided by a more open and detailed accounting of monies donated and where they were going on a frequent basis. With the benefit of hindsight, it's regrettable that that didn't happen as a lot of people and relationships have clearly been affected negatively by all this, but what's done is done and it does sound like the final outcome is likely to be a lot better than some of the alternatives, and that is good to hear.

 

[Thor]

I want to thank Tom for that disclosure. That illuminates one
issue.

It does not address what happened to funds solicited and
donated in Feb 2007. You make no mention of receiving any of those.

Do you have any record of funds transferred to you from that
time period? That was the jeffbass_28 solicitation. Just to set the record straight.

Thanks.

 

[tombowlus]

I want to thank Tom for that disclosure. That illuminates one
issue.

It does not address what happened to funds solicited and
donated in Feb 2007. You make no mention of receiving any of those.

Do you have any record of funds transferred to you from that
time period? That was the jeffbass_28 solicitation. Just to set the record straight.

Thanks.

That was the only transfer I received, and I have no knowledge of any contributions made after that date (or before, really, since I don't know what people contributed even prior to that date).

Tom.

 

[jive1]

I want to thank Tom for that disclosure. That illuminates one
issue.

It does not address what happened to funds solicited and
donated in Feb 2007. You make no mention of receiving any of those.

Do you have any record of funds transferred to you from that
time period? That was the jeffbass_28 solicitation. Just to set the record straight.

Thanks.

According to this thread started by BMW, http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308319 , $1000 was collected on behalf of JeffBass28. The thread was started on 2/9/07, which is after Tom had received $1000 for filing fees. We also know that Jeff claims that he has not received one penny from that collection.

As of now, we haven't confirmed the dates of people's contributions, but many donated after 8/2006, when Tom received the filing fees. If that is the case, then there is still money unaccounted for.

I'm not going to speculate into the how and why. But, it appears that money was claimed to be received after filing fees were received by Tom that did not reach it's stated recipient, JeffBass28.

 

[guy n. cognito]

According to this thread started by BMW, http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308319 , $1000 was collected on behalf of JeffBass28. The thread was started on 2/9/07, which is after Tom had received $1000 for filing fees. We also know that Jeff claims that he has not received one penny from that collection.

As of now, we haven't confirmed the dates of people's contributions, but many donated after 8/2006, when Tom received the filing fees. If that is the case, then there is still money unaccounted for.

I'm not going to speculate into the how and why. But, it appears that money was claimed to be received after filing fees were received by Tom that did not reach it's stated recipient, JeffBass28.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never know how much money is "unaccounted" for. The only person that can truly answer this question has made his position on the matter perfectly clear.....

 

[KJung]

For the record, it is my sincere opinion that Mike Winnen did not steal or take any of the money for his own use. I can't prove it, but that's my honest gut take on it.

Tom.

Since I was involved with this just a touch early on, I will strongly +1 the above. While BMW and I aren't the best buddies by any means, I think this was a situation of lack of experience, unexpected personal life changes, etc., getting in the way of good intentions.


Also, +1 on the kudo's to Tom for spending his very limited time resources to 'finish this mess up'.

K

 

[Thor]

Ken, with all due respect, I find it difficult to reconcile
'good intentions' with unequivocal refusal to account
for funds solicited to benefit a recipient who never got them.

 

[KJung]

Ken, with all due respect, I find it difficult to reconcile
'good intentions' with unequivocal refusal to account
for funds solicited to benefit a recipient who never got them.

I hear you. However, IMO 'cussedness' (is that a word) does not necessarily imply intentional dishonesty in my book.

However, it's a mess and there's not much good that can be said at this point.

 

[Thor]

Well, all I can say is I have not had an honest response.

I find the avoidance, aversion, deflection and ad hominem attacks
in this instance to not be the behavior of an honest person.

Avoiding this isn't making it go away. My side of it is well
documented and airtight so far. Kind of hard to refute a
FedEx bill of lading, a copy of an MO and a FedEx tracking
showing delivery in Feb 2007, as well as the two statements
from the attorney involved and the intended recipient involved
that no funds were transferred or received in this
time period. The thread soliciting this is a matter of record.

What happened to those funds? We all know the answer to
that, don't we?

 

[JoshB]

What happened to those funds? We all know the answer to that, don't we?

The fact of the matter is that we don't, and you jumping to any conclusions on your own, regardless of what you may think, does not help the situation one bit. The negative attitude blows.

I agree that not everything is adding up, but still, jumping ahead is a bad idea. IMO YMMV, etc.

 

[Thor]

The fact of the matter is that we don't, and you jumping to any conclusions on your own, regardless of what you may think, does not help the situation one bit. The negative attitude blows.

I agree that not everything is adding up, but still, jumping ahead is a bad idea. IMO YMMV, etc.

I would be happy to provide you the same documentation
I showed Jive1. Send me your email address. Then we will
take it to PM after you have examined the scans.

I think I am entitled to 'the negative attitude'. I am out 100
dollars I can document to anyone who has a legit interest. I
am possibly out 200, as I had indicated earlier in the thread.
I am awaiting documentation on that now.

The February 2007 solicitation is a matter of record. The
link has been posted here over and over.

I have documentation of transferring the funds. That
is a fact.

Statements were made by Tombowlus on this thread
confirming no funds were received by him in Feb of 2007.
I didn't make that up.

A statement is linked on this thread from jeffbass_28
stating that he received no benefit from the solicitation
on his behalf (made in Feb 2007). I didn't jump to a conclusion, he posted it.

My only 'conclusion' here is that the funds solicited in Feb 2007 were never disbursed. I don't look at that as 'jumping ahead'.

I don't know for what specific reasons they were never sent, I will grant you that.

I do find the middleman's refusal to address the issue
disingenuous, to say the least.

Yeah, my attitude 'blows'. So does losing 100 bucks donated
in the spirit of charity. So what exactly did I do wrong here?
Help shine the light of day on it?

 

[NJL]

fwiw, (like anyone here gives a rats ass as to what i think anyway), Thor is a very close friend and is the epitome of integrity and honesty. when he speaks, i'm all ears *old E F Hutton commercial*

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

fwiw, (like anyone here gives a rats ass as to what i think anyway), Thor is a very close friend and is the epitome of integrity and honesty. when he speaks, i'm all ears *old E F Hutton commercial*

+1

I couldn't care less about the $20 I gave, but it does disturb me if the guy who asked for donations to help another decided to keep it for himself--and on top of that told anyone asking to bug off.

 

[JoshB]

I would be happy to provide you the same documentation
I showed Jive1. Send me your email address. Then we will
take it to PM after you have examined the scans.

Never did I say that I doubted you on this.

I think I am entitled to 'the negative attitude'. I am out 100 dollars I can document to anyone who has a legit interest. I
am possibly out 200, as I had indicated earlier in the thread.
I am awaiting documentation on that now.

I can understand that you're still angry about it, but again, I don't think that pointing fingers without the full story is correct either, regardless of how you feel. Granted, the evidence is stacking against Mike, no matter what his friends may say regarding his situation or attitude.

The February 2007 solicitation is a matter of record. The
link has been posted here over and over.

I have documentation of transferring the funds. That
is a fact.

Statements were made by Tombowlus on this thread
confirming no funds were received by him in Feb of 2007.
I didn't make that up.

A statement is linked on this thread from jeffbass_28
stating that he received no benefit from the solicitation
on his behalf (made in Feb 2007). I didn't jump to a conclusion, he posted it.

My only 'conclusion' here is that the funds solicited in Feb 2007 were never disbursed. I don't look at that as 'jumping ahead'.

I don't know for what specific reasons they were never sent, I will grant you that.

I do find the middleman's refusal to address the issue
disingenuous, to say the least.

Regurgitation of the facts does not change my mind about the fact that just simply being pissy is not going to solve jack ****. Have you attempted to call Mike? Has anyone? Emails? Contacting his employer? If people are so up in arms, and this particular instance is becoming such a source of contention and hurt feelings, why isn't more being done to attempt to get the answers from Mike? Luckily, I was broke as hell during this whole thing, so I did not lose any money, but some people are out a lot of cash, and that, is unacceptable.

Yeah, my attitude 'blows'. So does losing 100 bucks donatedin the spirit of charity. So what exactly did I do wrong here? Help shine the light of day on it?

No, I never said that you did something wrong, I simply pointed out that I think your attitude blows.

That said, I do wish we could get an itemized list in this situation, as there is such an issue with what's going on. Someone get me Mike's number, and I'll call him myself to stop all the damn bitching. I'm getting REALLY sick of people thinking that posting in a damn thread on a website is going to solve anything.

Please note Thor...this it not solely directed at you. I'm more frustrated with the situation than anything else and think you've been more patient than I would be. Sorry if you feel I've stepped on your toes.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

That said, I do wish we could get an itemized list in this situation, as there is such an issue with what's going on. Someone get me Mike's number, and I'll call him myself to stop all the damn bitching. I'm getting REALLY sick of people thinking that posting in a damn thread on a website is going to solve anything.

I think that would be really helpful. I personally find the silence from the "middleman" disturbing, but perhaps my attitude blows as well even though I didn't donate any money. If you'd like to take the proactive step of making the call and reporting what you find, i think that would be much appreciated by everyone.

 

[JoshB]

I think that would be really helpful. I personally find the silence from the "middleman" disturbing, but perhaps my attitude blows as well even though I didn't donate any money. If you'd like to take the proactive step of making the call and reporting what you find, i think that would be much appreciated by everyone.

All I need is the phone number...