naive string question

[micguy]

Thick strings where the windings touch each other do stuff like this. The whole point of wound strings ia that the windings have to have a bit of space between them when under tension - that space is (leaving out some of the Physics for brevity) why they sound better than a solid string would.

A thuddy string's sound is further deadened up the neck - the neck pickup's position is far enough from the bridge to where it isn't capturing many harmonics up there, making a thuddy string even more dead sounding.

 

[JW56789]

It could be several things causing this, but IF it were ME, I'd install new strings, and see if the problem goes away with the old ones, or is present with the new ones. Then you'd have some direction to check further, if necessary.

 

[Real Soon]

Sounds like the string could be twisted or faulty.

I was working on the breakdown unison part to Stevie's "Sir Duke" on a P with light-gauge Pressurewounds, and thought to myself, it's great the E string doesn't sound too crazy on the F# and G# on the one big scale going up.

The sound you're reporting reminds me of the sound I've heard on more than one low B string on more than one 5- or 6-string bass. Makes me wonder if maybe fatter, heavier strings are possibly more prone to issues either from a slight twist or entirely in themselves.

Between Fender 7250M and ML, I've personally preferred literally everything about the ML, which sports a .100 E string. Maybe it's because the lighter string just rang a little more easily.

 

[Lenny JG]

Sounds like you need to loosen your truss and watch your action closely.

 

[shoulderpet]

I've been playing bass, as an amateur, for a number of years and could perhaps say that I have some experience with gear. Yet there is - or I think that there is - currently an issue with the E string on my Pbass strung with 7250s (45105) nps roundwounds. For some strange reason memory doesn't serve me in that respect, so I just can't remember what the case was with other sets of strings and would want to postpone changing them for the time being. The issue is: past approx. the 9th fret the sound of the E string tends to become a one dimensional thud, like the string has lost its elasticity and ability to vibrate. It stays in pitch but the note sounds like a brick, if I may so put it. It makes sense, of course, given that the string is getting shorter and it's a fat string at that, hence less vibration, hence a duller tone. But how much is too much? Are there some types/brands of roundwound strings where this phenomenon is less pronounced? Am I fixated on a non-issue?

I have played dozens of different basses from cheap to a couple of grand and to be honest every single one has sounded less than great on the E string after about fret 7 or 8,I think it is just the nature of the E string being a thick string tuned low

 

[Phaidrus]

Sounds like you need to loosen your truss and watch your action closely.

This should already be set up properly but I'll check again.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Try a lighter gauge E string.

 

[Phaidrus]

Try a lighter gauge E string.

Impossible!

 

[DanDBassist]

I suppose one could describe what I'm hearing as "boomy" and "bloated". Just checked and I wouldn't say that the E string past the 9th fret, or thereabout, lacks sustain. Yet the entire E string, even when played open, seems to have somewhat less sustain than the other strings. Also just checked my other Pbass, strung with DR Legend flats, and there seems to be no such issue or in any case much less so.

There is an important clue in this quote from Phaidrus: "Yet the entire E string, even when played open, seems to have somewhat less sustain than the other strings." I have personally found brand new strings which had problems from the moment they were installed. One that has shown up the most is a loose winding. Sometimes so loose that the winding could actually be moved a little when gripped between the thumb and finger then slid parallel to the string.

 

[Phaidrus]

There is an important clue in this quote from Phaidrus: "Yet the entire E string, even when played open, seems to have somewhat less sustain than the other strings." I have personally found brand new strings which had problems from the moment they were installed. One that has shown up the most is a loose winding. Sometimes so loose that the winding could actually be moved a little when gripped between the thumb and finger then slid parallel to the string.

Perhaps the E string got a bit damaged as it was uninstalled and then installed again on my bass. Or most probably it's just how it is, thick E strings sound less lively as one moves up the neck past the 9th or so fret. I'll keep them on for a while as I do like them and then try some other set, probably the regular (not the super bright) Dunlop nps 45105.

 

[iiipopes]

Thanks for replying. What I don't quite understand is why this is an issue with Pbasses in particular and how is the issue with the E string affecting the rest of the strings as well. Lastly, is a more flexible string less susceptible to dead notes?

The geometry of a P-pickup coil tends to pick up more fundamental than overtones (go ask Rob Turner at EMG why - he used to have a line in the "faqs" section that talked about resistance v impedance and why coil geometry makes different pickups sound different.). The thicker the string, the inherently less flexible it is unless the construction is internally compensated. This translates into the string not vibrating with the same balance of overtones, hence the perception of "thumpy" or "tubby" tone. Some companies simply use a thinner E string than the math otherwise would indicate; this includes Fender from the beginning, using a 95 or 100 E string on a 45's set or even sometimes a 50's set. Other companies, like DR, have multiple windings to keep the core as thin and therefore as flexible as possible. Jon Moody of GHS has made great strides in the next generation of "balanced" strings that keep the consistency of tone with consistency of tension and feel throughout the set. Even with the D'A EXL170BT 45-107 set that I really enjoy, I keep extra 107's, since for me the E string does still tend to die before the rest of the set. But that may be my particular body chemistry where my perspiration tends to eat nickel. The set that lasted me the longest was when Fender still made the 9050CL flatwound set in 45-105. I gigged that one set for over two years changed the E string for an Ernie Ball 105 stainless flat (NOT the Cobalts), and gigged the set another year before moving on. Now all you can get is the 9050L set, which the E string lasts longer, but I just don't like the feel so I have another EB105SF in reserve.

 

[Phaidrus]

The geometry of a P-pickup coil tends to pick up more fundamental than overtones (go ask Rob Turner at EMG why - he used to have a line in the "faqs" section that talked about resistance v impedance and why coil geometry makes different pickups sound different.). The thicker the string, the inherently less flexible it is unless the construction is internally compensated. This translates into the string not vibrating with the same balance of overtones, hence the perception of "thumpy" or "tubby" tone. Some companies simply use a thinner E string than the math otherwise would indicate; this includes Fender from the beginning, using a 95 or 100 E string on a 45's set or even sometimes a 50's set. Other companies, like DR, have multiple windings to keep the core as thin and therefore as flexible as possible. Jon Moody of GHS has made great strides in the next generation of "balanced" strings that keep the consistency of tone with consistency of tension and feel throughout the set. Even with the D'A EXL170BT 45-107 set that I really enjoy, I keep extra 107's, since for me the E string does still tend to die before the rest of the set. But that may be my particular body chemistry where my perspiration tends to eat nickel. The set that lasted me the longest was when Fender still made the 9050CL flatwound set in 45-105. I gigged that one set for over two years changed the E string for an Ernie Ball 105 stainless flat (NOT the Cobalts), and gigged the set another year before moving on. Now all you can get is the 9050L set, which the E string lasts longer, but I just don't like the feel so I have another EB105SF in reserve.

So one way to remedy this issue, if one is indeed playing a Pbass, is to opt for strings (nps rounds in my case) with the most flexible construction, namely a thinner round core, assuming one stays with the standard 45-105 gauge. Correct? But if one also wants a low-mids character, it may not be so easy. Or is it?

 

[michael_t]

So one way to remedy this issue, if one is indeed playing a Pbass, is to opt for strings (nps rounds in my case) with the most flexible construction, namely a thinner round core, assuming one stays with the standard 45-105 gauge. Correct? But if one also wants a low-mids character, it may not be so easy. Or is it?

If you have to insist on 45-65-85-105, I would suggest the GHS Round Core Boomers for the low-mid character you're looking for. That's the set I tried on my Fender Jazz and liked the overall tonal balance.

That said, I would go a bit lighter on A and E (45-65-80-100) for a better tonal balance on a P bass based on what's been discussed above. I've tried the 40-55-75-95 set and didn't have any issue with the E string sounding "tubby" even higher up the neck.

 

[Phaidrus]

If you have to insist on 45-65-85-105, I would suggest the GHS Round Core Boomers for the low-mid character you're looking for. That's the set I tried on my Fender Jazz and liked the overall tonal balance.

That said, I would go a bit lighter on A and E (45-65-80-100) for a better tonal balance on a P bass based on what's been discussed above. I've tried the 40-55-75-95 set and didn't have any issue with the E string sounding "tubby" even higher up the neck.

I'm going through a 45105 phase after playing lighter strings in the past and think I've found the holy grail of gauges.

It's pretty much impossible to find a 45105 set of RC Boomers in Europe at the moment. I'll look again but would a DR set or any other brand for that matter fit the bill of low-mid character and flexible construction?

 

[michael_t]

would a DR set or any other brand for that matter fit the bill of low-mid character and flexible construction?

Either Pure Blues (nickel) or Fat Beams (stainless).

 

[michael_t]

I'm going through a 45105 phase after playing lighter strings in the past and think I've found the holy grail of gauges.

As a former "balanced tension enthusiast", I thought 45-60-80-105 was my holy grail at one point, only to realize this "one size fits all" approach didn't work very well after all. The simple fact is different basses require different gauges for tonal balance, not to mention the same "45-105" set can sound and feel very different depending on the brand, type and construction.

Just my experience...

 

[Phaidrus]

As a former "balanced tension enthusiast", I thought 45-60-80-105 was my holy grail at one point, only to realize this "one size fits all" approach didn't work very well after all. The simple fact is different basses require different gauges for tonal balance, not to mention the same "45-105" set can sound and feel very different depending on the brand, type and construction.

Just my experience...

You're right. I'm sure I'm projecting my idea of visual geometrical balance, as expressed by the gauge of a 45-65-85-105 set, onto string choice and hence tonal balance.

 

[iiipopes]

So one way to remedy this issue, if one is indeed playing a Pbass, is to opt for strings (nps rounds in my case) with the most flexible construction, namely a thinner round core, assuming one stays with the standard 45-105 gauge. Correct? But if one also wants a low-mids character, it may not be so easy. Or is it?

You sound like a candidate for GHS Balanced Pure Nickels. Now, the regular gauge of BPN's is 44-106. But as I have posted elsewhere, the pure nickel windings are more dense than nickel plated steel windings. This means the BPN's have more mass and therefore more tension than a 45-105 set of conventional hex core nickel plated steel rounds. But if you are looking for a string you can really dig in and have that low mids character, with consistency of tone and feel string-to-string and up the neck, these strings deliver in spades. I play that way, and they deliver for me.

 

[TomB]

One other thought, completely different track. It's pretty common for B-strings to have intonation issues in the area you mention, simply because of the density of magnetic material interacting with the pickup. No reason it might not occur on an E-string; the thicker the gauge, the more likely. Is your action low? Is your E-string side of the pickup high? Try lowering your pickups and see if that has any positive effect. …nothing to lose by trying. I've cleared up a couple blurry B-strings that way.

 

[Phaidrus]

One other thought, completely different track. It's pretty common for B-strings to have intonation issues in the area you mention, simply because of the density of magnetic material interacting with the pickup. No reason it might not occur on an E-string; the thicker the gauge, the more likely. Is your action low? Is your E-string side of the pickup high? Try lowering your pickups and see if that has any positive effect. …nothing to lose by trying. I've cleared up a couple blurry B-strings that way.

Indeed my action is low (the lowest Fender recommend) as I like low action and the pickup is set high (the highest Fender recommend) to compensate for the weaker Alnico 2 magnet on the bass side of the V-Mod pickup. So nothing beyond conventional limits but still it could be a contributing factor to the issue, as you point out. I'll experiment with the setup to see if I could get better results.