Neck Woods: Looking for a Maple Alternative

[bassvirtuoso]

Shouldn't this thread be moved somewhere other than Luthiers Corner, it has nothing to do with actual bass building.

How does it not? I'm having a custom bass built and looking for Luthier's experiences on the subject of neck woods for the build...

 

[HaMMerHeD]

GORGEOUS! Got any more pics? It's not a total derail, it'd be on topic to post more pics of this, wouldn't it?

I believe that is Dick Lovgren's (bassist for Meshuggah) Warwick custom shop dolphin.

 

[Hopkins]

How does it not? I'm having a custom bass built and looking for Luthier's experiences on the subject of neck woods for the build...

Because you are not asking about actually building, you are asking about tonal attributes of wood, which is something most serious builders do not even consider in a build. Structure and aesthetics are what most of us base our builds off of. Whatever tone certain species give is a much better discussion for players.

 

[bassvirtuoso]

Because you are not asking about actually building, you are asking about tonal attributes of wood, which is something most serious builders do not even consider in a build. Structure and aesthetics are what most of us base our builds off of. Whatever tone certain species give is a much better discussion for players.

You're right, you can't talk to Mike Tobias about these things, he only builds what looks good.

I'll have the thread moved, thanks.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

Then talk to Mike Tobias or @Drake Custom about it. You don't really get to go on a public forum and ask a question, and then dictate what answers are acceptable to you.

 

[Hopkins]

You're right, you can't talk to Mike Tobias about these things, he only builds what looks good.

I'll have the thread moved, thanks.

Wood is a very inconsistent material, so even if its tonal attributes weren't exaggerated, it would be impossible to determine what an individual neck blank will sound like because there can major variances between two sides of the same board. So yes, structural properties and aesthetics should be considered above all else.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

My best advice, if you want the "sound" of maple, with the feel of unfinished wood, is to go with maple, and ask for either a pure raw tung oil finish (not Formby's/Watco/etc.) or a very thin, satin polyurethane on a very fine-sanded surface (1200 grit or better). It will give you the look and...other characteristics of maple, and it will feel like raw wood. Raw tung oil will feel especially unfinished.

 

[Gully Foyle]

If it's a bolt on, just play unfinished maple, then when it gets wierd, bolt on a new one.

Maybe not totally cost efficient, but gives you maple tone with raw feel?

 

[Hopkins]

My best advice, if you want the "sound" of maple, with the feel of unfinished wood, is to go with maple, and ask for either a pure raw tung oil finish (not Formby's/Watco/etc.) or a very thin, satin polyurethane or a very fine-sanded surface (1200 grit or better). It will give you the look and...other characteristics of maple, and it will feel like raw wood. Raw tung oil will feel especially unfinished.

I think this has always been the answer.

 

[Lonnybass]

Just to add another bit of confusion to the discussion here - have you considered alternative finishes on maple?

As a player, I can't stand the feel of a gloss finish on the back of a neck made of just about anything, be it maple or any other wood. As a builder, I've found that about five to six coats of Tru Oil left to cure for a week and then buffed out with 0000 steel wool and wax easily provides that natural slick open feel. I've built a bunch of necks that have combined all sorts of laminates of wenge, maple, purpleheart, ash and padauk...and they all get the same treatment. Open grain where it counts, sealed grain where it counts, but not glossy or sticky.

Lonnybass

 

[Hopkins]

Just to add another bit of confusion to the discussion here - have you considered alternative finishes on maple?

As a player, I can't stand the feel of a gloss finish on the back of a neck made of just about anything, be it maple or any other wood. As a builder, I've found that about five to six coats of Tru Oil left to cure for a week and then buffed out with 0000 steel wool provides that natural slick open feel. I've built a bunch of necks that have combined all sorts of laminates of wenge, maple, purpleheart, ash and padauk...and they all get the same treatment. Open grain where it counts, sealed grain where it counts, but not glossy or sticky.

Lonnybass

Careful, you might get yelled at

More importantly, does mahogany sound like maple? No.

I need to try this again: What wood has the closest sound qualities of Maple but isn't Maple?

 

[Lonnybass]

More importantly, does mahogany sound like maple? No.

I need to try this again: What wood has the closest sound qualities of Maple but isn't Maple?

I just saw this post. I'm not going to try to answer it.

Talkbass can be great with finding answers to certain things. In my experience though, questions like the one above inevitably lead to an endless series of individual anecdotes about this guy's bass, or that guy's bass that - while interesting on their own - tells you absolutely nothing about what you're looking for.

As you probably know, among the builder community, there are a ton of variables that come into play with instruments...construction techniques, structural considerations, wood combinations for both aesthetics and tonal properties, how the coloration or neutrality of the pickups and electronics will come into play, and so forth. All of them are factored into the process. And all of these considerations must be considered when answering the question about the sound qualities of a particular wood in a particular bass. To read a lot of the tonewood anecdotes on TB that a bass sounded really "bright" or really "open," for example, and attribute it to one particular variable (like a maple fingerboard or something), is a tough sell - at least to me. I wish I had golden ears like a lot of these guys, but I don't.

I think you'll have much better luck doing some research on what folks like Mike Tobias and Roger Sadowsky have to say in the various interviews and discussions they've participated in. One of the most interesting quotes I've ever read about tonewood came from Roger Sadowsky.

To paraphrase, "I am basically building the same bass over and over again, and I can tell you that the kind of wood makes a difference." Mike Tobias has alluded to similar things.

They're building a volume of stuff where there are a LOT of constants - electronics, preamps, construction philosophies - and the only real variable is the woods. I think you'll find much more credible information this way. There's a lot of good tonewood stuff to be learned from volume upper-end acoustic builders as well (Martin, Taylor, etc.)

Lonnybass

 

[TonyP-]

Because you are not asking about actually building, you are asking about tonal attributes of wood, which is something most serious builders do not even consider in a build.

I say this with all due respect (and I mean that).
I would find that statement hard to believe.

I cannot speak for a all builders but I can say after conversations with some folks like Mike Lull, Jim Mouradian and Carey Nordstrand that its one of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects.

For that matter Carey Nordstrand has his own pickups and preamps because He has an own idea of that X and Y should sound like.

Not arguing and attempting any negative material that is so common on TB nowadays just stating what I know.

 

[blindrabbit]

Canary
Rosewood
Limba
Bubinga

...or how about graphite?

 

[Hopkins]

I say this with all due respect (and I mean that).
I would find that statement hard to believe.

I cannot speak for a all builders but I can say after conversations with some folks like Mike Lull, Jim Mouradian and Carey Nordstrand that its one of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects.

For that matter Carey Nordstrand has his own pickups and preamps because He has an own idea of that X and Y should sound like.

Not arguing and attempting any negative material that is so common on TB nowadays just stating what I know.

This I will never understand, believing in tonewood is one thing, but I don't understand at all how some people think that wood is the most important aspect in the sound of an instrument, when most people can't even distinguish the difference between a rosewood and maple fretboard.

Some peoples beliefs on tonewood is almost on a religious level, where they believe in the magical powers of tone wood even if all logic goes against it. I am not saying that wood makes no difference. My argument is the hard, definitive descriptions that people give certain species of woods defies all logic, because wood is so inconsistent, and the extreme over exaggeration of its impact.

 

[TonyP-]

This I will never understand, believing in tonewood is one thing, but I don't understand at all how some people think that wood is the most important aspect in the sound of an instrument, when most people can't even distinguish the difference between a rosewood and maple fretboard.

Some peoples beliefs on tonewood is almost on a religious level, where they believe in the magical powers of tone wood even if all logic goes against it. I am not saying that wood makes no difference. My argument is the hard, definitive descriptions that people give certain species of woods defies all logic, because wood is so inconsistent, and the extreme over exaggeration of its impact.

Just to be clear
Since you did quote me.
I did say "one of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects." I did not say it is the most important...BUT it is up there.

Sure I could route a pickup right up against the neck or right up against the bridge and that is going to over ride a lot of tonal characters sure...But you don't see to much of that...Not when you mostly see P J and slight variation of soapbar positions.

IMHO I think its word is generally more consistent then not and for that matter so don't the people over at Warmoth. (who might have a little experience with this kind of thing...)

As far as most people who cannot tell the difference between maple and rosewood...Well all I can say is that I'm jealous, I go with cheaper materials.

I wish that was me, because l can tell the difference right away when its in my hands.

I'm sorry you got defensive, it was not my intent.

 

[PDX Rich]

My best advice, if you want the "sound" of maple, with the feel of unfinished wood, is to go with maple, and ask for either a pure raw tung oil finish (not Formby's/Watco/etc.) or a very thin, satin polyurethane on a very fine-sanded surface (1200 grit or better). It will give you the look and...other characteristics of maple, and it will feel like raw wood. Raw tung oil will feel especially unfinished.

Pretty much this. ^^^

 

[MultiScaleMale]

IMHO, tone is 80-90% strings and electronics. Why does a P sound like a P and a J sound like a J when they're made of the same woods? It's not the shape of the body. Its electronics.

But I'll second my suggestion to go with a wenge laminate on the back of a maple neck. If it's a tilt back headstock, that may be a problem.

 

[TonyP-]

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT looking for a tonewood debate here. I can hear differences between different woods and that's why this post exists. Thank you.

My apologies for my part...
Continue and I can as well.

 

[bassvirtuoso]

Thanks to those of you who helped, I'm now researching Ash with Maple and Padauk being a backup option. I appreciate everyone's inputs.