Necks Shimmed by the Factory? WTH?

[Jarneskeg]

I have no problems with neck shims and have used them many times if the setup required it.

What I never liked were those micro-tilt neck adjuster thingies Fender was using at one point. Seemed like a poor solution. I'd be interested to hear the experiences of anyone who used those things.

I think Peavey had a neck tilt adjustment on some of theirs too, didn't they?

I added a shim to my Kawai because the neck was graphite with no truss rod. It was straight, but the angle was causing the strings to climb too high past the 12th fret.

 

[Jarneskeg]

Shims are PERFECTLY normal on a new bass and absolutely nothing to worry about. Mass produced basses are not lovingly hand crafted to within micrometers. After all we are talking about wood here and all its variables and a very busy production line. A shim is a sign that in QC someone found it needed a slight tweak to obtain optimal playability. That’s a good thing.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you:
"A shim is a sign that in QC someone found it needed a slight tweak to obtain optimal playability. That’s a good thing."
That is definitely a good thing!

 

[Jarneskeg]

I’m sorry, but this is like complaining that they use adjustable saddles instead of fixed height saddles.

I just never heard of manufacturers doing this before. I suppose it is a good thing that they take the extra effort to make it play right.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I would definitely learn a lot and might even come to better appreciate shim use.

Actually, you don't really need to Build-A-Bass® to understand and appreciate to use of shims.

What I never liked were those micro-tilt neck adjuster thingies Fender was using at one point. Seemed like a poor solution. I'd be interested to hear the experiences of anyone who used those things.

I had a couple of 7ender Telecaster Basses in the mid '70s to early'80s. Never had a problem with those.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Fender’s Micro-Tilt was a variable shim.
They made a mechanism to vari the angle without having to add an actual shim.
Music Man also used the Micro-Tile system as well.

 

[eniac]

I've heard it said that a strip shim that disrupts full heel contact with the pocket can cause all kinds of weird tone and sustain and dead-note issues, because the neck and body are no longer vibrating as a unit. So if a shim is needed, it's best to use one that totally covers the neck heel, like the ones Stewmac sells. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Anything to it?

FWIW, at least 15 and maybe 20 Fenders have come my way since the mid 1970s, and I have yet to see one that had a shim.

 

[Stranger Danger]

If there’s a shim and you don’t know it, is there really a shim?

 

[MrClassicMetal]

If you really want a bass minus that pesky shim, see if you can find one of these:

 

[dedpool1052]

If there’s a shim and you don’t know it, is there really a shim?

Schrödinger's cat of the bass world?

 

[devnulljp]

Wait til you find out that Fender has been doing this since the 50s

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I think Peavey had a neck tilt adjustment on some of theirs too, didn't they?

I added a shim to my Kawai because the neck was graphite with no truss rod. It was straight, but the angle was causing the strings to climb too high past the 12th fret.

And G&L ! Where it was first implementer. The system got a bad rep. Mostly due to over tightening the neck screws . That and the sloppy neck joints 73nder was producing at that time, with a 3 bolt attachment allowed side to side movement of the neck. Hence the over tightening in a futile attempt to keep the neck aligned.

 

[Jeff Scott]

If there’s a shim and you don’t know it, is there really a shim?

Oh, g0d, we're getting philosophical, now.

 

[rolfplamperton]

Back in 2008, I had an Alleva Coppolo with a neck shim. It was just a thin strip of sandpaper that was glued into the neck pocket. Got it used but I’m pretty sure Jimmy did this.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

and then there is is that damnable "truss rod" thing. My Steinberger has none, it came out of the mold with perfect relief. Can't belive all you other suckers have to fiddle with those wood necks....

 

[Gilmourisgod]

My 83' G&L L2k has the three-bolt neck with a hex screw to adjust neck tilt, basically an adjustable neck shim, bu I never had to use it all these yers. Leo knew his business.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Thanks for the response.

I get that it's perfectly fine, and common to use them during set up. Phobia? Not quite, but it does make me doubt the quality of instruments coming out of a factory if they have to use shims to compensate for design or workmanship flaws on a regular basis.

Sometimes the shim is part of the design, and luthiers use them as well. Those don't worry me. I am referring, for example, to a standard J-bass copy, designed to have the neck bolt directly into the pocket in a perfect fit, and the assemblers are having to add shims on the regular. That speaks to a process flaw.

I have owned Kawai, Fender, FGN, Michael Kelly, Ibanez, Squier, and Offbeat bolt-on basses. I prefer bolt-on necks specifically because they can be replaced, shimmed, modified, and removed during refrets and more serious work. I have removed the necks on all of those, except the Offbeat, and never once did I find a shim. I have had a shim added (the Kawai) but none of them were shimmed by the manufacturer.

So, like I said, not anti-shim, but assemblers having to use shims to compensate for design or workmanship flaws - that makes me wonder what else they couldn't get quite right.

The shim is compensation for material, not design or workmanship.

 

[Gervais Cote]

If you really want a bass minus that pesky shim, see if you can find one of these:

View attachment 7030013
View attachment 7030014

Goodness ! That’s a zero compromise design !

 

[MrClassicMetal]

Goodness ! That’s a zero compromise design !

Now if only there were a short scale version available...

 

[B-Mac]

I just read that Ibanez uses neck join shims in the manufacturing of some basses. Is this really a thing?
When I buy a new bass, certainly anything approaching or exceeding a thousand USD, I expect it to be designed and built well enough to not need a shim from the factory! Trust me, I am not expecting Lakland USA quality at that price range, but they should be able design and work the wood well enough to avoid needing shims from the word go.
Does anyone know what manufacturers are using this @#&%<$ production process so I can avoid them?

Most if not all of them do. Some times it's just a sliver of emery cloth.
It's an in house fine adjustment, a tweak. Be glad they actually do it.

 

[Geogio]

I just read that Ibanez uses neck join shims in the manufacturing of some basses. Is this really a thing?
When I buy a new bass, certainly anything approaching or exceeding a thousand USD, I expect it to be designed and built well enough to not need a shim from the factory! Trust me, I am not expecting Lakland USA quality at that price range, but they should be able design and work the wood well enough to avoid needing shims from the word go.
Does anyone know what manufacturers are using this @#&%<$ production process so I can avoid them?

There's nothing wrong with a shim in fact it shows attention to detail. Wood is not an exact material to work with, it expands and contracts.

I have a P-FSO I shimmed, I used a thick business card. When I was a kid we used to shim with matchbook covers. I imagine they're using a nice shim from the factory.

It's one of those things with bolt on necks. The material has to be suitable, the pocket and the heel have to be exact as possible, and the humidity has to be stable continuously. The only other work around is a neck through.

Valve trains on engines are shimmed, and it's shimmed to tolerance, a shim is more exact than a thread and nut.