Who are these people?
Sure. People will take advantage of you if you let them. Just don't let them.
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Need help setting someone straight - your POV please
- Thread starter CanaDave
- Start date
I don't begrudge anyone who puts a price on their time and talent. The reasons I am willing to play free or low-money gigs are (A) because it's a worthy charitable cause that could possibly lead to (B) paying gigs like private parties for the kind of people who have the dough to throw a huge blow-out bash before they do a massive reno on their home.
That being said, we play a fair number of free gigs because there are not a lot of places around where I live for cover bands to play. The most coveted gig in town is tips-only Friday evening dance party...bands from hours away are clamoring to get in on it. Instead, we create our own opportunities by staging and promoting our own events, or volunteering to play at charity events. This has led to worthwhile, higher-profile paying gigs.
Our drummer was in a band for 20 years that "played for fun, not money." Before long, they became the go-to band in town for big charity and community events, including main stage stuff opening for national acts. Some gigs paid exceedingly well, and others were freebies. Over that 20-year span, the band was part of a great community of musicians and philanthropists that has participated in raising over a half million dollars for various charities.
That being said, we play a fair number of free gigs because there are not a lot of places around where I live for cover bands to play. The most coveted gig in town is tips-only Friday evening dance party...bands from hours away are clamoring to get in on it. Instead, we create our own opportunities by staging and promoting our own events, or volunteering to play at charity events. This has led to worthwhile, higher-profile paying gigs.
Our drummer was in a band for 20 years that "played for fun, not money." Before long, they became the go-to band in town for big charity and community events, including main stage stuff opening for national acts. Some gigs paid exceedingly well, and others were freebies. Over that 20-year span, the band was part of a great community of musicians and philanthropists that has participated in raising over a half million dollars for various charities.
IMO friends and family often show less consideration for each other than they do for strangers. I'm not smart enough to know why; I just know it's so. I think maybe it's they're so familiar with each that they don't realize they're doing that. Which is a kind of a lack of communication, no? So I think that you need to know that you've clearly expressed your thoughts and preferences on this topic, and that he understands what they are, and that they're important to you. If he continues to show little regard for your thoughts and preferences, then maybe you have to face the fact that he's going in a different direction, and if you aren't with him on that direction, then he isn't any longer as good of a friend as he used to be. And act accordingly.
But .... by all means, DON'T label it as "setting him straight". It's just a "I can't agree with you on this."
I may be off base, but I don’t think I am - if you played this place, you’d be treated all evening as “the help.” The owners would be accommodating at first, but as the night wore on, so too would their patience. Guests would be drunk and demanding that you let them sing or sit in and use your gear. Some might even pick fights with you to demonstrate their superiority over “the help”, especially if they’re failed musicians. Imagine the very worst paying gig you can imagine, and then imagine not being paid for it. Eventually, you’d have to load out amidst drunks and couples fighting, and the owners would be just like “whatever dude” when you complain about their neighbour busting your amp grill cloth or dropping your bass.
Anyway, if it’s not a “heck yeah” then it’s a “heck no.”
Some free gigs are worthwhile - but those are shots you have to call. This is not a shot I would call, ever. I’d just nope tf out of there.
Anyway, if it’s not a “heck yeah” then it’s a “heck no.”
Some free gigs are worthwhile - but those are shots you have to call. This is not a shot I would call, ever. I’d just nope tf out of there.
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While not so much a part of this thread but this situation was along these same lines:
My wife and I went to a couple's house because they were having a block party. We arrived late so got the tail end of folks sitting under easy-ups and having a beer and talking. Our friend's husband introduced us and said "Irma (my wife) is a great singer. You ought hear her sing. Her voice is like Linda Ronstadt's." So a couple of the neighbors said "Really? Let's hear you sing something". Of course there was no music, no musicians, no DJ, or anything else for accompaniment.
I turned to her and told her in Spanish so most of them wouldn't understand: "You're not a novelty act for their entertainment. These people have absolutely no knowledge or appreciation for music or your talent. AND nobody is giving you money to be a performing monkey for their amusement." She got the point and told them that she cannot sing unless there is a band backing her up.
Unfortunately, playing for free puts us into that category of being a performing monkey for people's amusement.
My wife and I went to a couple's house because they were having a block party. We arrived late so got the tail end of folks sitting under easy-ups and having a beer and talking. Our friend's husband introduced us and said "Irma (my wife) is a great singer. You ought hear her sing. Her voice is like Linda Ronstadt's." So a couple of the neighbors said "Really? Let's hear you sing something". Of course there was no music, no musicians, no DJ, or anything else for accompaniment.
I turned to her and told her in Spanish so most of them wouldn't understand: "You're not a novelty act for their entertainment. These people have absolutely no knowledge or appreciation for music or your talent. AND nobody is giving you money to be a performing monkey for their amusement." She got the point and told them that she cannot sing unless there is a band backing her up.
Unfortunately, playing for free puts us into that category of being a performing monkey for people's amusement.
Even when paid, I sometimes feel like I'm doing the dancing monkey act.
Especially on guitar or fronting.
The reason why you probably started this long journey was because you enjoyed playing your instrument wanted to feel the same enjoyment and fame as the artists you were emulating as a youngster and thought chicks were generally attracted to musicians. These fantasies either came true or didn't.
There are those that play for the fun of it. There are those that play solely for the income. The majority of us fit somewhere in between. Different Strokes for different folks. Many discussions in many forms relative to finding appropriate partners that feel the same way you do with the same goals boundaries and ambitions. That's why companies have very strict interview processes and employee handbooks. Everyone needs to be unified otherwise there is division and chaos. As evidenced by what's going on out there.
As my talent and success level has increased so has my sense of self-worth. I don't mind paying it forward for any situation deserving. Otherwise you are worth exactly what you charge for your services. Union or otherwise. As a bassist I can hang. As an A1 FOH responsible for an entire show that's where I draw the line. I can easily find work in either capacity and will not suffer fools who assume otherwise.
Edit woo-hoo just got off the phone got hired into corporate band. No $100 ceiling here. Best of luck
There are those that play for the fun of it. There are those that play solely for the income. The majority of us fit somewhere in between. Different Strokes for different folks. Many discussions in many forms relative to finding appropriate partners that feel the same way you do with the same goals boundaries and ambitions. That's why companies have very strict interview processes and employee handbooks. Everyone needs to be unified otherwise there is division and chaos. As evidenced by what's going on out there.
As my talent and success level has increased so has my sense of self-worth. I don't mind paying it forward for any situation deserving. Otherwise you are worth exactly what you charge for your services. Union or otherwise. As a bassist I can hang. As an A1 FOH responsible for an entire show that's where I draw the line. I can easily find work in either capacity and will not suffer fools who assume otherwise.
Edit woo-hoo just got off the phone got hired into corporate band. No $100 ceiling here. Best of luck
I'm telling you they are people out there who think that playing is for fun. They have no problem appearing in public for no compensation.
Why are they having the blow out party before the reno, not after? Are the hosts expecting guests to trash the place? If so, stay away!!!
I never said otherwise. In fact, those are the kind of folks likely to get taken advantage of the most.
People have opinions and they don't always match up. that's fine.
i'd simply ask him if he's TRYING to offend you? because he's doing a good job. and see how he responds to that.
of course he will probably backpeddal, but the point is you are letting him know that he's crossing a line without giving him an ultimatum.
and if it all gets to be too much and you decide to leave he won't be able to say there was no warning.
i'd simply ask him if he's TRYING to offend you? because he's doing a good job. and see how he responds to that.
of course he will probably backpeddal, but the point is you are letting him know that he's crossing a line without giving him an ultimatum.
and if it all gets to be too much and you decide to leave he won't be able to say there was no warning.
It does seem to me, to step back from the OP's perspective, that this drummer's "insulting" response may have been defensive or reactive in nature. I suspect he saw the OP's demand for union rates and view that for anyone to take anything less is a betrayal of the musician community as an attack on himself and his own activity.
I had this same thought, but want to highlight "may have" since it could go either way. A lot of information is missing from the OP but long-term good friends don't usually resort to insults unless they feel provoked in some way.
I still think there's some bull-headedness on both sides.
Good things don't come from text exchanges when you are attempting to solve a tense problem.
Would speak to them in person to the effect of "I understand the point you are making about pay for shows. For me, it's important to be paid to play. So, I support whatever you decide to do but this situation is not right for me."
Would speak to them in person to the effect of "I understand the point you are making about pay for shows. For me, it's important to be paid to play. So, I support whatever you decide to do but this situation is not right for me."
Unless it’s a “good cause” charity gig, then I’d say strictly no pay, no play.
People wanting to throw a big party should be expecting to pay for a band, same as they would expect to pay for professional catering (try getting THAT for free). Frankly, I think your drummer friend’s attitude absolutely stinks.
People wanting to throw a big party should be expecting to pay for a band, same as they would expect to pay for professional catering (try getting THAT for free). Frankly, I think your drummer friend’s attitude absolutely stinks.
Sounds like the drummer committed to the free gig because he's mister "Yeah! My band will do it! For free! Why? Because I'm a great guy and my band will do what I ask!" before he ran it by they band and now he has to go back and ask for money...or...he's telling everyone in the band the gigs are "free" and he's pocketing the cash.
A lot of people are ignoring the fact stated in post #1 that the drummer typically gets the others $100 each. The drummer isn't asking him to play for free.
Sounds like the drummer lowballs the gig price given to the buyer in order to get gigs, and forgoes his own compensation to make it all work. Not "booking the band for free" then expecting the others to go along with no pay.
Sheesh
Sounds like the drummer lowballs the gig price given to the buyer in order to get gigs, and forgoes his own compensation to make it all work. Not "booking the band for free" then expecting the others to go along with no pay.
Sheesh
''This bass is made for walking..Thats just what it , can do...
And if i dont make some reasonable cash,, I dont play for you.."
Packing gear, and the cost of fuel in this day and age... Its a job and should be rewarded for the effort..
Your friend should not be insulting you..
Around here, this practice not well regarded because it undercuts the going rate.
What actually happens is that one guy might put his share back in the pot so as not to complicate/compromise his tax status, but the rate to the venue is the typical fee shared by 1 less.
This mean a higher split.
If venues/gigs do not pay a certain rate, they are left to duo's.
Any venue trying to undercut the typical going rate does not attract decent...relatively...bands.
Depends how musically deaf people and venues are but generally musical credibility is a factor.
A new startup up venue typically picks a good pull...and therefore are 'trained' by that band what the whole deal is.
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