Never Ordering a Schroeder Cab Again

[Passinwind]

Yes, the OP is inexperienced with speakon cables and I think this led to a misunderstanding. However, a couple things don't make sense to me based on the email clips that the OP posted.

First, the OP's mentions that that Jorg would get him another "box" because the cables wouldn't fit. I, as well as many following this thread, instantly knew the problem was due to trying to connect an NL-4 plug into an NL-2 jack. I would think Jorg should have instantly caught this and asked the customer to use a cable with an NL-2 plug rather than telling the customer he would send a new "box".

Except that after seeing the box pic the actual mating problem actually appears to quite possibly be related to the protruding screw heads on the panel connectors rather than the connectors themselves, and there's no clarification yet on whether those panel connectors are NL-2s or NL-4s, with the latter seeming a bit more likely IMO. And we've also had no clarification on what flavor cable connectors the OP has and/or has tried to plug into the box. Are we having fun yet?

 

[trickyric]

Except that after seeing the box pic the actual mating problem actually appears to quite possibly be related to the protruding screw heads on the panel connectors rather than the connectors themselves, and there's no clarification yet on whether those panel connectors are NL-2s or NL-4s, with the latter seeming much a bit likely, IMO. And we've also had no clarification on what flavor cable connectors the OP has and/or has tried to plug into the box. Are we having fun yet? View attachment 3061433

I think the op said that after reading this thread he got the cable issue worked out

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

Oy yoy yoy... guys, this really isn't so complicated. Not even close. As for me utilizing this thread to "vent", that's also not the case. After months of attempting to get Jorg to help me rectify hooking up and utilizing both cabs together (as he promised I would be able to do), I finally thought it best to notify potentially interested folks about the difficulty I was having with him. Really as simple as that. As far as pinning the blame on me, my ignorance, etc... I almost don't know how to respond to such silliness. Whatever the case on my end, as a business person, Jorg should be interested in working with me to solve the issues. Particularly since the configuration was his recommendation.

I run a business, and, I'm guessing, many of you are going to tell me that, 1) you do as well, or 2) you have, in the past. I can hear the responses, already lol... As for me, I offer floor care solutions. If I come up with a floor care idea, I follow it through to the end. I don't expect the customer to have any level of expertise in the application or even the maintenance of their floors. THAT'S MY JOB lol. That's what I'm getting PAID to do lol. If I have a customer call me with questions, and ANY point during of after the process, I'm right there. Immediately. Not a week later. Not months later (let alone NEVER lol). Why? 1) it's good business 2) I want my customers to refer me, and 3) I have a mama and I know the difference between right and wrong lol. Sigh. It's not MY CUSTOMER'S job to know MY business. It's MINE lol.

Jorg is offering a product. Jorg is getting PAID for his product and to back it up and support his product. If I was having some kind of issue, what should have happened here? Oy, my goodness. This is so not complicated lol... Jorg SHOULD have said something like this; "Hey Scott. go ahead and give me a call, and let's get this situation resolved. I can speak with my engineer, if need be, and get you the answers you need. Let's get those cabs up and running!" Or what have you. Something to that effect. What SHOULDN'T have happened, is what actually did happen. Months of no real answers and an almost complete disinterest in the problem. Pushing a customer to the point of decided to sell the product. THAT was what happened.

So, God bless those of you who want to protect Jorg and his business behavior. Like I've already mentioned, I'm sincerely thrilled that many of you have had good experiences with him, but, as for me, I have found his commitment to his product AFTER HE HAS GOTTEN PAID to be less than desirable. And that is cutting him slack.

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

Again, many of you are getting stuck in the details. "did Jorg promise the cabs would run at 4ohms? Or did Jorg not say they would run at 4 ohms??" Etc... etc... (and I'm happy to continue to answer such questions, if that really helps). The problem isn't what Jorg did or didn't say about the resulting ohms. The problem is that JORG HASN'T BEEN SAYING MUCH AT ALL, AFTER HE GOT PAID lol. THAT'S the issue. lol. If I'm the only one who sees that kind of business practice as deeply concerning, than, well, sigh, I give up. Anyhow, to each his own. Here: "Schroeder! Forever! Best cab purchase experience ever!" That better?? <3

 

[trickyric]

Oy yoy yoy... guys, this really isn't so complicated. Not even close. As for me utilizing this thread to "vent", that's also not the case. After months of attempting to get Jorg to help me rectify hooking up and utilizing both cabs together (as he promised I would be able to do), I finally thought it best to notify potentially interested folks about the difficulty I was having with him. Really as simple as that. As far as pinning the blame on me, my ignorance, etc... I almost don't know how to respond to such silliness. Whatever the case on my end, as a business person, Jorg should be interested in working with me to solve the issues. Particularly since the configuration was his recommendation.

I run a business, and, I'm guessing, many of you are going to tell me that, 1) you do as well, or 2) you have, in the past. I can hear the responses, already lol... As for me, I offer floor care solutions. If I come up with a floor care idea, I follow it through to the end. I don't expect the customer to have any level of expertise in the application or even the maintenance of their floors. THAT'S MY JOB lol. That's what I'm getting PAID to do lol. If I have a customer call me with questions, and ANY point during of after the process, I'm right there. Immediately. Not a week later. Not months later (let alone NEVER lol). Why? 1) it's good business 2) I want my customers to refer me, and 3) I have a mama and I know the difference between right and wrong lol. Sigh. It's not MY CUSTOMER'S job to know MY business. It's MINE lol.

Jorg is offering a product. Jorg is getting PAID for his product and to back it up and support his product. If I was having some kind of issue, what should have happened here? Oy, my goodness. This is so not complicated lol... Jorg SHOULD have said something like this; "Hey Scott. go ahead and give me a call, and let's get this situation resolved. I can speak with my engineer, if need be, and get you the answers you need. Let's get those cabs up and running!" Or what have you. Something to that effect. What SHOULDN'T have happened, is what actually did happen. Months of no real answers and an almost complete disinterest in the problem. Pushing a customer to the point of decided to sell the product. THAT was what happened.

So, God bless those of you who want to protect Jorg and his business behavior. Like I've already mentioned, I'm sincerely thrilled that many of you have had good experiences with him, but, as for me, I have found his commitment to his product AFTER HE HAS GOTTEN PAID to be less than desirable. And that is cutting him slack.

I'm with you 100%. He reccomended something and then sold it to you. He needs to make sure it works as promised.
You did your part when you paid him.

 

[jnewmark]

Again, many of you are getting stuck in the details. "did Jorg promise the cabs would run at 4ohms? Or did Jorg not say they would run at 4 ohms??" Etc... etc... (and I'm happy to continue to answer such questions, if that really helps). The problem isn't what Jorg did or didn't say about the resulting ohms. The problem is that JORG HASN'T BEEN SAYING MUCH AT ALL, AFTER HE GOT PAID lol. THAT'S the issue. lol. If I'm the only one who sees that kind of business practice as deeply concerning, than, well, sigh, I give up. Anyhow, to each his own. Here: "Schroeder! Forever! Best cab purchase experience ever!" That better?? <3

Ok, fine. Could you at least, since you started this thread, tell us if the box works with your cabs?

 

[jnewmark]

I'm with you 100%. He reccomended something and then sold it to you. He needs to make sure it works as promised.
You did your part when you paid him.

Who has said it doesn't work ? I think I have asked the OP a couple of times if it works; namely, can he run the two cabs together with this box? Still waiting for an answer. If he has already tried it and I missed it, then point me in that direction.

 

[trickyric]

Who has said it doesn't work ? I think I have asked the OP a couple of times if it works; namely, can he run the two cabs together with this box? Still waiting for an answer. If he has already tried it and I missed it, then point me in that direction.

It didn't work the way it was sold to him to work. Communication sucked (actually was non existent)
I believe he said at some point that it functioned.
However not in the manner he was told it would.

 

[jnewmark]

It didn't work the way it was sold to him to work. Communication sucked (actually was non existent)
I believe he said at some point that it functioned.
However not in the manner he was told it would.

Has it been shown where Jorg definitely said to the OP " This box will still give you a 4 ohm load ", or something to that effect ? I already quoted from the OP's post #120 where Jorg told him that the box would allow him to run both cabs with his amp. Nothing about a 4 ohm load was mentioned.

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

Has it been shown where Jorg definitely said to the OP " This box will still give you a 4 ohm load ", or something to that effect ? I already quoted from the OP's post #120 where Jorg told him that the box would allow him to run both cabs with his amp. Nothing about a 4 ohm load was mentioned.

Okay... I'm going to try to put this to rest, best I can, and, again, this isn't about specifics. This is about an almost complete disinterest on Jorg's part to resolve a problem, post-sale. Nonetheless, sigh, here we go again... Jorg stated that the box would enable me to run both cabs safely, with an amp that could handle a 4 ohm load. As for your insistence that I plug the cabs in and try them, my response is, "hell no, I'm not doing that yet." In light of the fact that I have lost faith in Jorg, I'm not hooking up an $1,800 head to the cabs through his box until I have some readings on the cab/box ohm output. So! I will have to work that out, and get an ohm reading. Again, my point isn't whether the cab/box configuration produces an acceptable ohm load. My issue with with how Jorg has handled the situation. I simply don't know how many times I can say the same thing... over and over again.

 

[jnewmark]

Okay... I'm going to try to put this to rest, best I can, and, again, this isn't about specifics. This is about an almost complete disinterest on Jorg's part to resolve a problem, post-sale. Nonetheless, sigh, here we go again... Jorg stated that the box would enable me to run both cabs safely, with an amp that could handle a 4 ohm load. As for your insistence that I plug the cabs in and try them, my response is, "hell no, I'm not doing that yet." In light of the fact that I have lost faith in Jorg, I'm not hooking up an $1,800 head to the cabs through his box until I have some readings on the cab/box ohm output. So! I will have to work that out, and get an ohm reading. Again, my point isn't whether the cab/box configuration produces an acceptable ohm load. My issue with with how Jorg has handled the situation. I simply don't know how many times I can say the same thing... over and over again.

Thank you. You don't want us commenting on specifics, but, you threw it all out there, so what did you expect ? At least we got the 4 ohm load thing resolved. BTW, since you had the first cab for awhile before you got the second, how did it sound with your amp ?

 

[Munjibunga]

Hi all! Man, sorry to leave everyone hanging! I was busy playing some shows and such. I had no idea there would be much interest in my experience with Schroeder cabs! Again, my apologies!

Let me restate, that I sincerely hated to make my post. I try to stay away from negative feedback such as this, but, after so much frustration and the constant feeling that I paid good money for two cabs and wasn't being taken care of, I felt I simply had no choice.

Also, again, I have nothing against Jorg, in some personal fashion. He may be the sweetest, most wonderful man God ever made. I also am THRILLED to hear that many have had great experiences with him. That's all excellent stuff. I'm simply giving you my experience.

I, originally, was considering a 15+2x10 cab. 4 ohms. Jorg and I went back and forth. After having some good experience with the Berg 15+6, I said, "you know what, why don't we do a Schroeder 15+6 at 8ohms?" Jorg told me he couldn't do a 6" speaker, but could do and 8" speaker. He also recommended that I do it at 4 ohms. I had in mind that we would do 8ohms, so I could potentially add 12's or 10's, should I like the cabinet. Jorg then told me that he had developed a box that would enable me to utilize both 4 ohm cabs with an amp that could only handle a minimum 4ohm load, and that the box had been thoroughly tested and was trustworthy. Should I have questioned that issue further? Well, ya, probably, but, you know, Jorg is the pro, and, as stated, a good number of folks seem to have had good experiences. So, I went w/his recommendation. Also, and hmmm... maybe this has been an experience specific to only me, but I found Jorg giving off a vibe of, "dude, stop asking me questions. I sell cabs. Do you want one or not?" I always sort of got the impression that he was doing me a favor? Again, that was my impression. I thought I was nuts, but, after this last email between him and myself, I'm not so sure I was wrong :/

Anyhow, he told me he'd ship the "box" with the 15+8, which didn't happen. I had to chase him down via email yet again, and get the box mailed to me, separately. I'll have to dig through email, to determine what that timeframe was. I wasn't in a huge hurry, as I was playing with the 15+8 on it's own. After a few months with the 15+8, I determined I wanted to hear his 10's and 12's. As I did the first go-around, I went to his "used" page. See if I could find a deal on a cabinet already made. His response was the same as it was every other time I have inquired about a particular used cabinet, "oh, that cabinet is sold. I haven't updated my page, but I can build you a new cabinet." I think I've received that comment, three times? Anyhow, I had the 15+8, finally had the box in hand, and ordered the 12+10.

Once I had the 12+10 in hand, I started to attempt to work with the box. Now, please keep in mind, I'm a vintage equipment guy. The dUg amp is an attempt to NOT have to keep lugging around SVT's and guitar rigs lol. So, things, like speakon cables, are fairly new to me. I had no idea, until you guys pointed it out, that there were different types of speakon cables (thank you, once again). When I reached out to Jorg, to let him know I couldn't get my cables to fit, he seemed as confused as I was. He sent me a photo of a general speakon cable, sitting on a table, and said, "you need one of these." Of course, that didn't solve the issue, as none of the cables in my possession seemed to fit.

When I couldn't get them to fit, he said he would have another one made for me. On my side, it should have occurred to me that, perhaps, speakon cables were not all the same. As I stated, I don't utilize them much, and was deferring to Jorg's guidance. Not an excuse, just how the situation was unfolding. In retrospect, I still don't understand why Jorg couldn't have reached out to whoever built the box and said, "hey, man, I have this guy who ordered two, new cabs from me. He can't get the box to work and also has some questions about how it functions. Could you give him a quick call?" THAT would have been the correct response to the situation. I could have figured out that, out of all the speakon cables I had, none of them was the correct one, and I could have asked some questions about the functionality of the box. Particularly since I was about to plug the thing into an $1,800 head lol. That simple phone call connection would have show some semblance of concern, on Jorg's part.

As it was, I would email him, and he would email me back, saying, "I need to get you another, to try." After a few months of this, I finally sent him a final email, stating, "Jorg. I can't utilize these two cabs together as you had in mind, without getting that box up and running. I'm going to sell these cabs. PLEASE send me another box." His response?

"Scott

My engineer had surgery and is in the hospital

Therefore the delay

Things can happen

Thank you"

That's a quote... and that's when I lost it. After so many emails to him, asking for his help, I decided to share my experience. I'm a VERY patient and kind guy, and have reached out to Jorg far too many times. He made his recommendations to me as to how to proceed with the cabs he was building me, and then simply would not help me get them up and running. Again, it appears that neither he nor I know much about speakon cables and the "box", and, in my mind, it was incumbent on Jorg to put me in touch w/someone who DID KNOW. Preferably, the guy who made the damned box lol!

So, in the end, would I change how I handles some of my decisions? Yep. I would, but, altogether, Jorg received his requested price for both cabinets, immediately. He should have stood behind his products and his recommendations. I mean, am I wrong in my conclusions? Am I losing my mind, here?

The answer is right in there, as I'm sure others have pointed out. He said he could provide you with a box that would enable you to use both cabs with a 4-ohm-capable amp. He apparently did not say the load would be 4 ohms. He provided you with a series box. I said previosly that you'd lose only 3 dB using that box. As I also said previously, the message sent was not the message received.

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

Thank you. You don't want us commenting on specifics, but, you threw it all out there, so what did you expect ? At least we got the 4 ohm load thing resolved. BTW, since you had the first cab for awhile before you got the second, how did it sound with your amp ?

Well, as I already stated, I'm happy to answer any specific questions you guys have, and, I have to the best of my ability. I don't know what more I can do, but continue to try to answer all of the questions. My point is that I was simply sharing my experience on Jorg's lack of interest in supporting me as a customer after the sale. That's really the gist of it. If we want to talk specifics and if that really accomplishes anything, go for it. Again, I have given answers and will continue to. I just don't want the main point to get lost.

As for the cabs, ya, they sound okay. I mean, nothing that blows me away, but, they are okay. Since I already had the 15+8 and felt it needed to be rounded out a bit on top, I decided to try out adding the 12+10. Might as well try it out. Life is short lol... In the context of the band, the berg 15+6 held up better. The band felt that the low end was much tighter, and sat in the mix better. So, if I show up with any other cab, they get pissed lol. I enjoy the mids and highs that the Schroeder offers, but I find the low end to be not as tight. I'm sure the fact that one is ported and one is sealed is pertinent. Although, Jorg tell me that I'm wrong, and that the ported cabs produced a tighter low end. Not my experience, but, Jorg is god, apparently lol

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

The answer is right in there, as I'm sure others have pointed out. He said he could provide you with a box that would enable you to use both cabs with a 4-ohm-capable amp. He apparently did not say the load would be 4 ohms. He provided you with a series box. I said previosly that you'd lose only 3 dB using that box. As I also said previously, the message sent was not the message received.

In all due respect, you are missing the entire point of this original post. Just, missing it. I'm sorry, man. No response necessary. I'm regretting the post, at this point. Few seem to be understanding it.

 

[wmhill]

In all due respect, you are missing the entire point of this original post. Just, missing it. I'm sorry, man. No response necessary. I'm regretting the post, at this point. Few seem to be understanding it.

This is talkbass, and this happens often. Iv'e seen plenty of times where the consumer gets a raw deal and the vocal majority stand up for the retailer. Usually it's because they like/use the product, manufacture or retailer, regardless of what someone else has been through. I once posted my disgruntlement over a set of strings, when the E string broke before I ever got it up pitch. Before it was done I was the bad guy, my bass had issues, I didn't know how to change strings etc.... Don't take it (or anything else on TB for that matter) personal. You made the purchase, you are the one dissatisfied and at the end of the day what others think about the situation are irrelevant. I had several miserable experiences with Fender, yet their fanboys here won't hear of it. Doesn't change my stance one bit.

 

[mcnach]

That is stated right at the beginning of post #1 - the OP believed a box would be provided allowing two 4 ohm cabs to be combined with a total load of 4 ohms. It’s still there for all to read.

In a later post he says Jorg told him the box allowed him to use two 4ohm cabs with an amp that can do 4ohm... different phrasing altogether that actually makes a lot more sense.
What I get from all this is that the OP did not fully understand what he needed and got confused as to what Jorg was actually offering. I mean, he seems to have spent quite a bit of time with a box he could not connect his cables to... Don't you think that someone with a little bit of knowledge/inclination would have figured it out?

I think the OP just did not really know what he needed and Jorg overestimated his knowledge. If OP knew what he needed, then he'd either stick to a pair of 8ohm cabs, or change amp, or use a series box and this thread would not exist. It's not a crime to not know things, but I am not sure it's entirely reasonable to expect a manufacturer to understand our requirements and make him responsible.

 

[mcnach]

They helped him with the cable, but in the end it's wasn't a magic box. It was a series box.
I am sure that if Jorg had explained this to him he would have ordered 8 ohm cabinets and not what he was sold.

It looks like the OP already owned a 4 ohm cab... so the question would be to buy TWO new cabs (8 ohm each), not simply adding one. It makes sense for Jorg to suggest "hey, you can probably avoid buying two new cabs if you just buy another 4ohm one and wire it in series with a box I can supply", especially if he knows the amp the OP is planning to use (plenty of power, so losing some by going 8ohm rather than 4ohm would be likely a non-issue)... However that could be misinterpreted by someone who is not familiar enough with these things.

I have exchanges emails with Jorg a while ago when I was looking to buy new cabs... and he didn't strike me as someone who'd lie for a sale. He was very helpful and happily listened to my requirements and concerns. It helped that I knew exactly what I needed/wanted. In the end, I didn't buy from him but not because I didn't like him. I just thought something else suited me better, and he understood my point and didn't push.
I feel bad about this thread because it's based on one side only. One side who lacks some understanding. One side who claims first to have been given a box that allows you to connect 4ohm cabs to give a final 4ohm impedance, and later contradicts that statement.
I'm sorry... I really feel for the OP. We're talking serious amounts of money here, and I feel his frustration, and a while ago I'd have been as confused as he has been about this box and the speakon connectors etc... but the frustration and inconvenience does not make him right. Ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility for knowing what they want, and if someone recommends something else, they must understand how that alternative suits them better before agreeing.

 

[mcnach]

Right. I don't think a series box was a good solution for the OP's amp setup. Based on the information the OP gave and the things I mentioned about Jorg's actions that didn't make sense to me, I'm dubious that the OP had been given a clear understanding that he would be sending less power to his cabs.

He would, but the amp is capable of 1000W. In reality, this means you'd probably end up turning the master up a bit compared to what you would if you had a 4ohm load, and the amplifier can produce the necessary power. Maybe not for everybody... but I'd say this would work for most gigs that most people here play. For that reason I would not be surprised if Jorg said "hey, if you just want to buy one new cab, not two... you can get another 4ohm cab and wire it in series with your existing one".

 

[Munjibunga]

In all due respect, you are missing the entire point of this original post. Just, missing it. I'm sorry, man. No response necessary. I'm regretting the post, at this point. Few seem to be understanding it.

I figured as much.

 

[mcnach]

Okay... I'm going to try to put this to rest, best I can, and, again, this isn't about specifics. This is about an almost complete disinterest on Jorg's part to resolve a problem, post-sale. Nonetheless, sigh, here we go again... Jorg stated that the box would enable me to run both cabs safely, with an amp that could handle a 4 ohm load. As for your insistence that I plug the cabs in and try them, my response is, "hell no, I'm not doing that yet." In light of the fact that I have lost faith in Jorg, I'm not hooking up an $1,800 head to the cabs through his box until I have some readings on the cab/box ohm output. So! I will have to work that out, and get an ohm reading. Again, my point isn't whether the cab/box configuration produces an acceptable ohm load. My issue with with how Jorg has handled the situation. I simply don't know how many times I can say the same thing... over and over again.

So... you complain that the solution offered is not suitable, but... you haven't tried it?

I just don't understand how this is even an issue.

I have no idea what has happened here, because I was not watching your communications... but I have an example with another small operation with whom I have dealt with several times and I was always very happy. This involved custom-made instruments. I kept my communications concise, easy to read and to the point, and I made sure I knew what I wanted. I know of one particular person who was upset at how poor the communications were and how his project was dropped. I know this person and I know he's all over the place, and I'm pretty sure he just kept asking questions that showed his ignorance. A small builder who deals with emails/phone himself, has limited time to deal with customers. This particular builder is extremely helpful, in my experience... but he's probably not very inclined to spend his time teaching people stuff they should know themselves before approaching him.

At the end of the day we only have one side here... and it's a bit bizarre. Then you add more bizarre statements like that above about not trying the box... which you clearly still don't know what it does. I'm sorry, but I can't side with you on this one (or Jorg's, for that matter, the story as it's been told just doesn't make a lot of sense)...

It should be really easy and quick to find out FOR CERTAIN what your box does (a bunch of us here are pretty sure what it is, myself included, but let's be sure 100%), and then just use it, or return the new cab if the solution is not to your liking. Of course, don't wait 9 months for that... So you might be late for returning and are stuck with the cabs... why don't you just try them? Unless you just don't want them anymore out of principle, which I can understand too.