Never Ordering a Schroeder Cab Again

[Red Planet]

Im getting that the OP has no idea what he is talking about and is taking it out on Jorg.

Its obvious from Jorg's site they offer both 8 ohm and 4 ohm cabs. I cannot comprehend how I could be convinced to use an impedance of something other that what I needed.

Its clear when the OP stated he had purchased one cab for some time prior before then purchasing another and then I think realized he couldn't use the two with his amp. This a more plausable explanation thus the reason for endless posts about ohms here and the sticky.

I recently moved a manufacturing plant from one location to another. Our company disassembled, loaded, trucked, unloaded, erected,and tested the plant. All tested well, our job was completed.

The company had hired all new inexperienced people to supervise and run the plant. They kept expecting us to have an unlimitted amount of time and staff to just hang out there while they figured out how to make their product. After dedicationg a month and a half of resources we had to throw in the towl and leave and they were mad at us. We did not quote making their productl for them.

Expectations on a producer can sometimes be higher than reality will allow.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I very, very rarely write a post like this, but here it goes... I ordered a 15x8 cab from Jorg at Schroeder, approx 8 months ago. Initially, I wanted an 8 ohm cab, as to potentially utilize with a second cabinet. Jorg encouraged me to go with a 4ohm cabinet. He claimed he had a "box" that would enable me to run both 4ohm cabinets at a 4ohm load. He said he would include the box for free. I ordered the 15x8. After receiving the 15x8 and feeling that I really did need more on the top end, I ordered a 12x10. 4 ohm, as well, per his recommendation.

As of this date, approx 9 months in to the deal, I STILL have yet to receive a functional "box." He sent me a "box" with speakon jacks, but two of the jacks won't receive cables whatsoever. The cabinet configuration has been utterly useless to me, seeing that my bass rig won't run at 2ohms. I have reached out to Jorg many times. He continues to promise me to get me a functional "box", but, it never materializes. After so much back and forth, I finally emailed him, yet again, telling him to please send me the promised "box", so I can sell the damned cabinets and be done with this... His response? "My engineer had surgery and is in the hospital. Sorry for the delay. Things happen."

I would HIGHLY encourage anyone looking for custom cabs to go elsewhere. Jorg was somewhat helpful in taking my cabinet order and my money, but, when it came to helping actually utilize the product they built for me, Jorg has failed. I'm sticking with my Berg NV 15x6's, which my band prefers anyhow. Low end is much tighter, than the Schroeders.

Sorry for the negativity, but, that's my Schroeder experience.

I am not getting how this mess was not Jorg's instigation unless this OP misrepresents the purchase process.

OP wanted 8 ohm cab
Got talked into 4 ohm cab and a msgic box.
Magic box could not be connected.

My own hackles would have been raised at the first mention of the magic box. Anyone who hangs in TB Amps forum should know innately that 4 + 4 can never = 4

 

[bucephylus]

I am not getting how this mess was not Jorg's instigation unless this OP misrepresents the purchase process.

OP wanted 8 ohm cab
Got talked into 4 ohm cab and a msgic box.
Magic box could not be connected.

My own hackles would have been raised at the first mention of the magic box. Anyone who hangs in TB Amps forum should know innately that 4 + 4 can never = 4

FWIW,

1) most of us are just saying that Jorg’s side of the story isn’t part of the data set.

2) most of us who have dealt with Jorg find it unlikely that he would have shoved some Rube Goldberg setup down the throat of an uninformed buyer. That would be inconsistent with my experience with Jorg.

 

[Passinwind]

Anyone who hangs in TB Amps forum should know innately that 4 + 4 can never = 4

AFAIK no one ever promised that. What did I miss?

 

[Red Planet]

AFAIK no one ever promised that. What did I miss?

That's what the OP said he was expecting.

 

[Stu_Bass]

In the Facebook thread it "seemed" to me that it was being implied that the box would deliver an amps full output at 4 ohms equally into two 4 ohm cabinets. I, and others, asked about resistors and series wiring and were told that it was none of that, it was two 4 ohm cabs producing a 4 ohm load. That is why I brought the Facebook thread up. It seemed clear that the intent was to announce that a box was about to be released that could do just that, not that it was possible to do that by known methods (series wiring, parralel resistance, dual voice coils) but to do what has never been done before.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

That's what the OP said he was expecting.

And again: we shouldn't rule out the possibility of some misunderstanding. What he expected may not be what the seller promised.

(Edit: Sorry, it wasn't directed at you, Red Planet).

 

[Red Planet]

And again: we shouldn't rule out the possibility of some misunderstanding. What he expected may not be what the seller promised.

I agree.

 

[jnewmark]

I am not getting how this mess was not Jorg's instigation unless this OP misrepresents the purchase process.

OP wanted 8 ohm cab
Got talked into 4 ohm cab and a msgic box.
Magic box could not be connected.

My own hackles would have been raised at the first mention of the magic box. Anyone who hangs in TB Amps forum should know innately that 4 + 4 can never = 4

Well, did you read the whole thread ? Jorg never said, as far as I can tell, that the total ohm loading would be 4 ohms. The " magic box " is a series box, which, as far as I can tell, was what was needed to run the two 4 ohm cabs. OP thought it was defective, but actually, as it turns out, it needed a certain type of speakon connector to work. Oddly enough, the OP wanted, ( originally ) a 4 ohm cab, then wanted Jorg to design an 8 ohm cab. They settled on a 4 ohm cab, with Jorg saying he had a box , that he would send at no charge, that would allow operation of the two 4 ohm cabs, if another was needed. The problem came with the OP's lack of knowledge of how to use the box correctly, and some misunderstanding on Jorg's part, who, if I'm understanding this correctly, thought the box was defective, according to the OP. It sort of escalated after that. I surely would love to know if the series box works correctly, and how the cabs actually sound, but the OP seems like he just wants to rid himself of the cabs and box, and start all over.

 

[Red Planet]

Well, did you read the whole thread ? Jorg never said, as far as I can tell, that the total ohm loading would be 4 ohms. The " magic box " is a series box, which, as far as I can tell, was what was needed to run the two 4 ohm cabs. OP thought it was defective, but actually, as it turns out, it needed a certain type of speakon connector to work. Oddly enough, the OP wanted, ( originally ) a 4 ohm cab, then wanted Jorg to design an 8 ohm cab. They settled on a 4 ohm cab, with Jorg saying he had a box , that he would send at no charge, that would allow operation of the two 4 ohm cabs, if another was needed. The problem came with the OP's lack of knowledge of how to use the box correctly, and some misunderstanding on Jorg's part, who, if I'm understanding this correctly, thought the box was defective, according to the OP. It sort of escalated after that. I surely would love to know if the series box works correctly, and how the cabs actually sound, but the OP seems like he just wants to rid himself of the cabs and box, and start all over.

You just nailed it.

 

[Passinwind]

That's what the OP said he was expecting.

Roger that, but that still doesn't answer my question. All I see that was promised was this:

Jorg then told me that he had developed a box that would enable me to utilize both 4 ohm cabs with an amp that could only handle a minimum 4ohm load, and that the box had been thoroughly tested and was trustworthy.

Which seems to be something that may have been delivered, more or less, although none of us actually know that just yet. A fair number of TB'ers have resorted to this kludge, pretty happily in some cases. Lately some have even been posting about it being preferable in some very specific cases. Beyond that, we are all still hearing one side only, eh?

Edit: @jnewmark already posted essentially the same thing a bit upthread as well, while I was composing my reply.

 

[Red Planet]

Roger that, but that still doesn't answer my question. All I see that was promised was this:



Which seems to be something that may have been delivered, more or less, although none of us actually know that just yet. A fair number of TB'ers have resorted to this kludge, pretty happily in some cases. Lately some have even been posting about it being preferable in some very specific cases. Beyond that, we are all still hearing one side only, eh?

Yeap.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Well, did you read the whole thread ? Jorg never said, as far as I can tell, that the total ohm loading would be 4 ohms.

That is stated right at the beginning of post #1 - the OP believed a box would be provided allowing two 4 ohm cabs to be combined with a total load of 4 ohms. It’s still there for all to read.

 

[jnewmark]

That is stated right at the beginning of post #1 - the OP believed a box would be provided allowing two 4 ohm cabs to be combined with a total load of 4 ohms. It’s still there for all to read.

So is post #120, from the Op. Here is a direct quote from it: " Jorg then told me that he had developed a box that would enable me to utilize both 4 ohm cabs with an amp that could only handle a minimum 4ohm load, and that the box had been thoroughly tested and was trustworthy. " Do you see anywhere that Jorg said it would be a total 4 ohm load? Now, maybe the Op THOUGHT that was what Jorg was saying, but, it clearly is a series box.

 

[Ben B]

AFAIK no one ever promised that. What did I miss?

That's what the OP said he was expecting.

And again: we shouldn't rule out the possibility of some misunderstanding. What he expected may not be what the seller promised.

Yes, the OP is inexperienced with speakon cables and I think this led to a misunderstanding. However, a couple things don't make sense to me based on the email clips that the OP posted.

First, the OP's mentions that that Jorg would get him another "box" because the cables wouldn't fit. I, as well as many following this thread, instantly knew the problem was due to trying to connect an NL-4 plug into an NL-2 jack. I would think Jorg should have instantly caught this and asked the customer to use a cable with an NL-2 plug rather than telling the customer he would send a new "box". Also, as I had posted previously, it didn't make sense to me that Jorg would need his engineer to build such a simple device.

Second, the OP referred to simply a "box". Since it was not referred to as a "series box", I question that Jorg may not have explained to the OP exactly what this box did. And since Jorg needed his engineer to build it, I can see how the OP could have assumed this was something much more complicated than a simple series box--like a "magic box" to run 2 4 ohm cabinets at 4 ohms.

Based on these points, I could understand the OP being confused and frustrated. He came here to vent, and the TB folks very quickly helped him with the cable issue and explained the series box. I'm not sure why it wasn't this easy when the OP was communicating with Jorg.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

So is post #120, from the Op. Here is a direct quote from it: " Jorg then told me that he had developed a box that would enable me to utilize both 4 ohm cabs with an amp that could only handle a minimum 4ohm load, and that the box had been thoroughly tested and was trustworthy. " Do you see anywhere that Jorg said it would be a total 4 ohm load? Now, maybe the Op THOUGHT that was what Jorg was saying, but, it clearly is a series box.

That doesn’t negate what he said in his original statement though...

I am beginning to feel like I’m in in a courtroom drama Objection!

 

[jnewmark]

That doesn’t negate what he said in his original statement though...

I am beginning to feel like I’m in in a courtroom drama Objection!

No it doesn't, but it might have been that he assumed he was getting a 4 ohm load. We seem to be getting more info from the OP from that initial first post, as the thread goes along. I just want to know if the damn thing works with his cabs !

 

[trickyric]

Yes, the OP is inexperienced with speakon cables and I think this led to a misunderstanding. However, a couple things don't make sense to me based on the email clips that the OP posted.

First, the OP's mentions that that Jorg would get him another "box" because the cables wouldn't fit. I, as well as many following this thread, instantly knew the problem was due to trying to connect an NL-4 plug into an NL-2 jack. I would think Jorg should have instantly caught this and asked the customer to use a cable with an NL-2 plug rather than telling the customer he would send a new "box". Also, as I had posted previously, it didn't make sense to me that Jorg would need his engineer to build such a simple device.

Second, the OP referred to simply a "box". Since it was not referred to as a "series box", I question that Jorg may not have explained to the OP exactly what this box did. And since Jorg needed his engineer to build it, I can see how the OP could have assumed this was something much more complicated than a simple series box--like a "magic box" to run 2 4 ohm cabinets at 4 ohms.

Based on these points, I could understand the OP being confused and frustrated. He came here to vent, and the TB folks very quickly helped him with the cable issue and explained the series box. I'm not sure why it wasn't this easy when the OP was communicating with Jorg.

They helped him with the cable, but in the end it's wasn't a magic box. It was a series box.
I am sure that if Jorg had explained this to him he would have ordered 8 ohm cabinets and not what he was sold.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Question for those with real electronics knowledge - could you use DC resistance + AC reactance to give the desired combined load or does the amp have to “see” the minimum DC resistance?

 

[Ben B]

They helped him with the cable, but in the end it's wasn't a magic box. It was a series box.
He is losing power or volume this way.
I am sure that if Jorg had explained this to him he would have ordered 8 ohm cabinets and not what he was sold.

Right. I don't think a series box was a good solution for the OP's amp setup. Based on the information the OP gave and the things I mentioned about Jorg's actions that didn't make sense to me, I'm dubious that the OP had been given a clear understanding that he would be sending less power to his cabs.