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New Aguilar AG 700!
- Thread starter redhed
- Start date
Often different measurements by different manufacturers. Peak vs. RMS vs. etc.
You'll also see Mesa rating the amp for 2 ohm use, vs. 2.67 by Aguilar. Not sure what all else goes into the design and construction which might account for those differences, but clearly the same power module doesn't result in the same output ratings on marketing documents.
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Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Look at distortion ratings too...without factoring that in, power specs are just apples/oranges.
The stock module is rated for as low as 2.67 ohms. The designer/manufacturer can push that lower with added circuitry and cooling hardware if they choose to. Adds cost and weight, so as usual, no free lunch.
Also a function of the risk they are willing to assume on warranty claims, I'd guess.
Passinwind
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- Dec 3, 2003
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Yep, good point. There are always tradeoffs involved on the design side, and then you get to marketing...
Simply put the D800 does not put out 800watts. If you are interested in the real specs, go to the Icepower website and look at the specs for the 700asc. Icepower posts extensive specs on all their amps so there should be no question as to how they perform.
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I have always felt the transient attack of the Shuttle to be very punchy and clean. The 250asx2 is the same as used in the TH500 but the single 12AX7 adds warmth to the preamp but still the amp has always been very clean. The 250asx2 puts out 450watts at 4ohms so the Shuttle is plenty loud. The AG700 has a preamp very similar to my old AG500 and sounds almost exactly like it. I have always found Icepower amps to be totally colorless, so the tone that goes in is the tone that comes out. I have 3 different Lakland's and a MM Stingray. So when I want to switch up tone, I switch basses.
The devil is in the details. Mesa claims 800W RMS w/10% THD at either 4 or 2 ohms, area under the curve. I'm willing to bet they have the plots to back that up.
The module is a starting point - final performance is determined in how it is applied.
You didn't read my post - go to Icepower All specs are posted in the technical papers.
I did read your post.
As an analogy, Volkswagen says their 2.0L turbo makes 210hp and 258 ft/lbs of torque. Numerous tuners can chip that engine to get more out of it.
I highly doubt that Mesa is lying about their specs. The same engineer that designed your Shuttle was involved in the D800 design.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
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I see the 1% power ratings (which I have measured and confirmed BTW), where are the ones taken at 10%?
I didn't say that they are lying about their specs. They are simply restating Icepower specs. I believe them fully and consider the D800 to be one of the best new amps on the market.
Look on the main product page for the asc series and you will see the 10% rate at 2.5 ohms is 800 watts. So actually Aguilar could claim 800w for the AG700 since it's the same and the Icepower modules are drop in.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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Thank you. I was looking at the official PDF spec sheet that I have on my computer. The spec that matters to me for my own design goals is 1% at 4 ohms powered by a 120 volt line, but as I said before, there are many ways to frame power specs.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
To answer here and the PM's I received... no, there is no confusion.
The stated specifications are minimums, based on a stock module with stock protection used in pretty much "plain vanilla" applications.
I have said many times that the most important performance information about almost every part is contained between the lines, ie. the more you understand about how something works, and WHY it's done that way, the more clear how much exploitable performance is contained within the design IF proper design precautions and safeguards are in place (or created).
We use a 10% THD figure which includes harmonics generated and added by the preamp. Mesa has a long history (decades before I was involved) of using a combination of tubes and solid state circuitry to create "harmonic rich" preamps in both guitar and bass amps, and I simply stepped in where Randy and Dan left off to continue and extend this philosophy while updating the performance and voicing to better fit current times. This is why it's important (in our case, can't extrapolate this to other manufacturer's designs) that the preamp distortion products must be included as this goes to the most basic aspects of the product line.
Each manufacturer specifies performance in a way that is most appropriate to their particular product and design philosophy. Every designer is different, creates products that sound and feel different, contain different performance metrics and priorities. That doesn't make any one either better or worse than the others (especially at this performance level). Every one of these new amps is a worthy performer IMO, that allows players to choose based more on personal preference than anything else. It's a great time to be a bass player IMO.
Here's a bit of data that alludes to what might lay between the lines of the published specs, note the scales:
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Thank you for that response.
All joking aside, I went to Med School but enigineers are brilliant !
Its humbling
All joking aside, I went to Med School but enigineers are brilliant !
Its humbling
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,049
- 5
- 221,002
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I was pre-vet but early on figured out that my bedside manner might be more suitable to the engineering profession. I have a lot of respect for the medical profession, not just for what can be done, but as much for the compassion and the grace that is shown even when not necessarily earned
Thank you for all professional responses. I've guessed that there could be something more on D-800 after finding pics because there's a pretty large heat sink attached on the icepower transformer.
