New Band Red Flag

[jbhaugh]

If he's [the drummer] the bandleader and gets you paid gigs, he has every right to suggest things he might like or feel what is important for the music on those gigs.

Maybe, but whether it's his "right" to dictate what the OP plays and whether the OP will choose to tolerate it are different things.

 

[micguy]

It's impossible to tell form the original post what exactly is at play here - you need to know a lot of context to see whether his request is informative, or controlling, or something in between.

Sticking close to the root is part of most good bass players' toolbox - our job is (in part, in most genres) to help define where 1 and 1 are - both the "tempo 1" (first beat of a measure) and the spectral "1", aka the root note. When someone (a piano player playing alone, or a whole band) plays a chord with something besides the root note at the bottom spectrally, it's called an inversion - it changes the character of the chord to base (or bass) it on something besides the root.

You see inversion on chord charts at times - the "slash" chords, where the letter after the slash indicates the note to be played in the bottom of things (our world). If you are playing things besides the root, you're making whole chord an inversion. Sometimes that's what's called for, sometimes that's a nice twist on things, and sometimes, you're upsetting the apple cart when you shouldn't be.

Another thing that someone may be telling you when they say "just play roots" is that you're too busy - you're not defining the "tempo 1" well enough - you're just playing lots of notes, without emphasis where it needs to be. A good bass player knows when it's time to play simple, supportive stuff, and when it's OK (or desirable) to cut loose a bit. You may be cutting loose a bit too much, and/or you may not know how to cut loose without messing up the groove. It takes time to learn when and how to cut loose, and if you aren't there yet, it'll help the band if you refrain from that until you're more capable in that realm.

 

[Axtman]

Unless you are significantly overplaying, to the detriment of the groove of the song or you are clashing with other instruments, I would not just play the root notes. I say copy the basslines that are on the recording. That way you have a defense of, "I'm playing it exactly like the recording!"

I also recommend that you record a song with you playing just roots on the first verse then playing (like the recording) on the second verse. Play it back to the band and have everyone vote on which they like better.

 

[HolmeBass]

Indeed. Not everyone is suited for putting a band's needs in front of their own selfish desires, and others aren't willing to make a needed attitude adjustment. Just the way some people are.

And just who is it with the omniscient perspective to always accurately identify just what “a band’s needs” are?

 

[selowitch]

The correct response depends at least partially on several variables known only to the OP and his bandmates.

 

[mambo4]

Post a recording and we'll tell you if the drummer was right

 

[landrybass]

If you can't put your band's best interests before your own selfish desires, then you have no business being in a band.

 

[jdh3000]

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

All drummers want to control the bass player.

It depends on how much you want to play with them. If he's the band leader, and wants you playing root notes, them that's his call. Your only options are to do it his way or quit.

When I first join a band, I stick to what they want, note for note, etc. As time goes by I test the waters to see how much more I can do.

As far as him criticing your timing... Drummers I've known always felt like they have perfect timing and anything wrong was the failt of someone else. You just have to put up with it, that will pass(somewhat).

If they are seasoned players, and have hired you, then they must see something in you that they believe will benefit the band. Some people like things a certain way, especially you're replacing a long time member.
When I joined this band 5 years ago, I got ahold of their band recordings of the bass player who was with them over 10 years. I learned most of what they did from listening to how he played it, which wasn't always like the record. With time I modified things with my own style, but played it safe in the beginning.

 

[Peteyboy]

My drummer and I occasionally schedule rhythm-section rehearsals and go over songs to tighten up our contribution. It can be difficult without the usual reference points, but it really lays bare all the inadequacies we all sometimes gloss over and allows you to fine-tune. You really get to understand the space you're meant to occupy within a song when you have to play it top to bottom with no vocals.

 

[punchdrunk]

You’re gonna be miserable if you stay in that situation.

 

[2112]

And just who is it with the omniscient perspective to always accurately identify just what “a band’s needs” are?

The BL. How they go about it varies, our group is reasonably democratic (much like the "chairman of the board" scenario hrodbert mentioned above). But at the end of the day, the BL's reasonsible for the general operation of the band and is expected and trusted to make decisions on the band's behalf as-needed.

 

[biobass]

I completely agree. NJ bands have the potential to make a lot of money if you're good and have a unique sound. Well paying gigs are abundant for danceable non-classic rock bands. If you feel the potential is there and the band leader has a good vision, then I would stick with it. I wish you luck!

Well, Ben, depends on what you consider well paying! corporate and banquet work, agreed there is money to be made. Theater work is variable from good to pitiful. Bar work pays in real dollars, not constant inflation adjusted dollars, about the same as it did twenty-five or more years ago. I know that you know this all too well. , Cheers, Dennis

 

[DJ Bebop]

Someone who doesnt play bass telling a bass player how to play bass. The classic disrespect we go through hahaha

My wife is not a singer but, she can tell if one is singing out of tune

 

[jerry]

You’re gonna be miserable if you stay in that situation.

If he's a young inexperienced player and the drummer is a veteran he might also learn something.

 

[pcake]

A lot of responses and I appreciate the feed back, I'm dealing with a slight flood problem right now, but just some clarification points.
I prefer a strong band leader, the last band slowly turned into a mess because the BL allowed himself to be overruled by another BM
My goal was to find a band with better musicians than myself, the saying: it's better to be the worse musician in the room was what I was shooting for. I over shot.
This area is a little sticky as bands go, We are over run with classic rock bands, plenty of bassist, very few non classic rock bands with potential to make paying gigs, and bars etc. before covid were starving for non classic rock bands/party bands. I live in a remote part of the state and have to travel. Given the above, I tend to stick it out hoping for the best.
I love Tennessee Whisky's bass line

Back to work I'll read and reply later Thanks

a few people have asked, but i haven't seen your answer - are you learning the songs exactly as the recorded versions?

 

[Downunderwonder]

So, a detail, He plays behind plexi glass, that's new to me, he moved me from in front of him to next to him sorta behind the glass, and that seem to make him happy, It's easier to keep an eye on him.

That's where you should have been to start off with, but it shows he must have a few clues.

I wonder if your keyboard player is so good he is trying to play your parts as well as his own. They are bastards for that sometimes. It makes bass players' lives hell.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think the question here is are you going to enjoy being frequently told what to play by your BL. As they are the BL I don't think you can ignore him without conflict so I'd just decide whether I want to put up with that or not. If you can handle it great, if you don't want to I'd just politely tell them you are unhappy and why, and resign if they don't change. Say something like:

"I appreciate this is your band so it's your choice how the songs are played, but I'm not enjoying being told how to play my parts/simply playing root notes. If there is scope for me to write my own part I'd like to stay, but if not then it's better for all of us if you hire a different player"

Either they change or you leave and get to be free join a band you actually enjoy playing in. Win win.

This right here. Band leaders do get the last word, but some are more controlling than others and being a control freak isn't always in the best interest of the music. The best leaders carefully choose personnel who can bring something to the table and then let them shine. The worst ones might have some training but not necessarily a good head for arrangement, but their need to assert complete control means they won't let anyone else contribute to make it any better. Their last word isn't necessarily the best thing for the music. That might be what you're up against, but I don't know.

I have no way to know why the BL is asking you to simplify to such a degree. The music you've described often uses fairly complex bass lines; nothing Motown is going to be simple roots unless maybe it's a ballad. Dance songs are often repetitive, but much of what makes dance tunes work is a driving bass line repeated ad nauseum. So I'm kind of stumped on this one. I would say that it's up to you to decide whether or not there's any value in this situation for you, and what it is. Are you going to learn anything by playing this way? Is he trying to help you stay in the pocket, thinking that maybe simple lines will be more rhythmically solid? Do you need to work on that? Is being told to play like this going to get under your skin and cause you to feel like you're not able to do anything creative? Is creativity part of what you are looking for, or is it just the fun of being in a band?

Not every situation is right for every player, but sometimes we can learn things from situations that aren't ideal. I would think about what you're actually getting from this situation, if anything, and then make a decision to either tough it out or leave. If you think you can't be happy with things as they are, then you know what to do.

 

[TNCreature]

I'm confused, your op listed all of the red flags that are worrying you, but your subsequent posts seem to be defending the drummer. And 8 pages in, we still don't know why you are being asked to change your bass lines. How you are playing them vs the original, and uf drummer imposing this Root/5 concept for some other reason.
Just trying to understand.

 

[Benjamin Earl]

Well, Ben, depends on what you consider well paying! corporate and banquet work, agreed there is money to be made. Theater work is variable from good to pitiful. Bar work pays in real dollars, not constant inflation adjusted dollars, about the same as it did twenty-five or more years ago. I know that you know this all too well. , Cheers, Dennis

Hey Dennis! We have subbed enough for each other to know what I am talking about. It is rare when a band has something special. Good leadership, solid players, likable personalities, and member dependability are all worthy traits to keep a gig. You have to admit, when you have the right group of players and a unique danceable play list the opportunities in NJ are pretty good.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Show Us A Song List!
Show Us A Song List!
Show Us A Song List!