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New Bergantino Neo Line; Pt. 2

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#941
KJung said:
Totally different design goal versus the fEARful. The Baer ML112 (and ML212) is based on a modified version of the 3102HO driver, and is actually 'tighter and brighter' than the CN212. VERY nice cab, and Roger Baer (just like Jim Bergantino) has a gift regarding voicing a cab with super duper, high quality to components to sound like a 'bass cab' versus a PA cabinet. The ML112 is tight down low, but hamers hard like the CN212, and the mid driver Roger uses (a Faital) is very warm and 'top of the driver' sounding.

Very nice stuff all around. The ML112/212 shifts the upper bass 'meat' of the CN212 up a bit, and has a more present upper mid response. The CN212 has a bit more absolute treble extension, and is a bit more meaty down low, and just a touch more relaxed up top.

My guess is two ML112's (from my experience reviewing the ML112 a while back) would have a bit more absolute output than the CN212, and a tonality that would be 'in the same tone universe' as the CN212, with the shifts in voicing described above.
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Could not have described both cabs better! Well done Ken! Completely agree!
 
#943
KJung said:
Totally different design goal versus the fEARful. The Baer ML112 (and ML212) is based on a modified version of the 3102HO driver, and is actually 'tighter and brighter' than the CN212. VERY nice cab, and Roger Baer (just like Jim Bergantino) has a gift regarding voicing a cab with super duper, high quality components to sound like a 'bass cab' versus a PA cabinet. The ML112 is tight down low, but hammers hard like the CN212, and the mid driver Roger uses (a Faital) is very warm and 'top of the driver' sounding.

Very nice stuff all around. The ML112/212 shifts the upper bass 'meat' of the CN212 up a bit, and has a more present upper mid response. The CN212 has a bit more absolute treble extension, and is a bit more meaty down low, and just a touch more relaxed between 2K and 4K or so.

My guess is two ML112's (from my experience reviewing the ML112 a while back) would have a bit more absolute output than the CN212, and a tonality that would be 'in the same tone universe' as the CN212, with the shifts in voicing described above.
Click to expand...

Oh well in that case I'm not missing out on anything I don't need then. With the MBF800 I'm getting hammer all day long on the CN212.

Thanks guys, appreciate your input as always!
 
#944
Perhaps there are resources to which I might be directed, but how could I train/educate myself to understand and learn to identify the sound of the various frequency ranges often discussed (e.g. "more XYX between 2k-4k"). Some sort of exercise/experiment method to connect the mental and aural dots?

Bonus question - another dreaded "compare this cab to that": Apart from the obvious weight difference, what might I expect from the CN212 voice in comparison to my Eden D212XLT, which is supposedly intended as a "vintage sounding" cab?

And (perhaps not right place for part B, but I suspect the folks in this thread might "know"), would it be at all viable to replace the heavy Eden drivers in the D212XLT with modern Neo drivers eg. 3012HO and how would that change things in comparison to the CN212?
 
#946
bigdbass said:
Perhaps there are resources to which I might be directed, but how could I train/educate myself to understand and learn to identify the sound of the various frequency ranges often discussed (e.g. "more XYX between 2k-4k"). Some sort of exercise/experiment method to connect the mental and aural dots?

Bonus question - another dreaded "compare this cab to that": Apart from the obvious weight difference, what might I expect from the CN212 voice in comparison to my Eden D212XLT, which is supposedly intended as a "vintage sounding" cab?

And (perhaps not right place for part B, but I suspect the folks in this thread might "know"), would it be at all viable to replace the heavy Eden drivers in the D212XLT with modern Neo drivers eg. 3012HO and how would that change things in comparison to the CN212?
Click to expand...

If you are also using an Eden head, just mess with boosting and cutting various frequency center points with the semi-parametric EQ. 2K-4K is in the upper midrange/lower treble area and is responsible for 'grind' when you have a warm input source with some nice break-up, and 'clank and gank' when you have a very clean input source (as an over simplification). Many players who like bass distortion emphasize that area, and many 'clean slappers' cut that area a bunch to smooth out the top end so that the slaps and plucks sound sweet and smooth and, well, not ganky:D

It has been a long time since I played a 212XLT. I remember liking it a lot. My guess is, the CN212 would give you quite a bit more output (things have come a long way in 15 years) and have a much smoother top end versus the rather harsh Eden horn. In general, those who would dig the punchy, articular XLT tone would most likely like the CN cabs quite a bit.

Putting new drivers in an existing cab is complicated, since the probability of the cab tuning and the crossover design/frequency matching the new drivers is relatively low. If you are familiar with speaker modeling software, you can get at least somewhat of an idea by inputting the volume of the cab and port dimensions, and the speaker specs from the manufacturer.
 
#947
bigdbass said:
Dang, that looks like a great cart. Bummer now it's $34.99 :( I need to replace a "rock-n-roller" I'd used for many years until last year when it got a bit wrecked when "helping" move a swing set. (Don't ask..)
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Might try actually going to a Costco, if you have one in your area and are out. I didn't look at the website before I went, but I just picked it up last Sunday. Maybe $19.99 is the in-store price? They had like 3 pallets of them at the store I went to.

5sg.
 
#948
fivestringgecko said:
Might try actually going to a Costco, if you have one in your area and are out. I didn't look at the website before I went, but I just picked it up last Sunday. Maybe $19.99 is the in-store price? They had like 3 pallets of them at the store I went to.

5sg.
Click to expand...
Nice derail... My wife just texted me from CostCo asking if I need anything. I gave her the item name and part # for the case but haven't heard back! Wife, appease my cart GAS!. ok, hijack off!
 
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#949
bigdbass said:
Nice derail... My wife just texted me from CostCo asking if I need anything. I gave her the item name and part # for the case but haven't heard back! Wife, appease my cart GAS!. ok, hijack off!
Click to expand...

I would argue that it's not an actual derail... I use my fold-em-up cart to schlep my Bergs, Shuttle 6 and pedalboard. :D ;) :hiding: Double gig bag on my back and it's a one-tripper!

Couple of Fat Strap bungie cables for the finishing touch and it's solid! Hope your wife can find that cart. It was in the hardware section with the drills and stuff and things!

5sg.
 
#950
Just a heads up, I use that Costco collapsable dolly for my CN212 but you should really wrap a bunge cord around the cabinet. It's so light that you can topple over if you hit the sidewalk just the wrong way wrong angle big crack uneven thing crevice you know what I'm talking about.
 
#952
Sittin here playing late at night at low volume sipping on some bourbon with the 212 and the tone is spot on. Beautiful. I hear every note in chords "living" in its own space if that makes sense. And there is always a gutsy yet tight underpinning to every note. As close to perfect as I've ever heard. IMO.
 
#953
Show last night was good. Received many compliments on the new rig and the tone. One of the guitar players also got a new Taylor this week that is very strong in the bottom end. I believe the interaction between the Berg and his Taylor caused some standing wave distortion issues, or I was just causing enough low waves to make his top resonate in an unfriendly way.
I'm just picking nits here; its certainly nothing a bit of adjusting won't take care of.
Anyway, the Demeter and Berg were great...
 
#954
MVE said:
Show last night was good. Received many compliments on the new rig and the tone. One of the guitar players also got a new Taylor this week that is very strong in the bottom end. I believe the interaction between the Berg and his Taylor caused some standing wave distortion issues, or I was just causing enough low waves to make his top resonate in an unfriendly way.
I'm just picking nits here; its certainly nothing a bit of adjusting won't take care of.
Anyway, the Demeter and Berg were great...
Click to expand...

I also gig with an acoustic guitarist. Check to see if your guitarist is not muting an open string where that note is not in the chord.
 
#955
GRoberts said:
I also gig with an acoustic guitarist. Check to see if your guitarist is not muting an open string where that note is not in the chord.
Click to expand...

That could certainly be it. You also might have him check his EQ settings.

It's very much the same for acoustic guitar as it is for us bass players... what sounds good at home by yourself doesn't usually work in a band setting. If he's like the acoustic player for one of my former projects, he set up a nice rich sound at home (translated: liked a good amount of low end), but those same settings created big problems for myself and the keyboard player. On occasion, I would purposely drop out completely and no one would notice.

5sg.
 
#956
Yeah, I'm sure we'll figure it out.
I was just trying to make the point that I am just becoming accustomed to the amount of lovely foucused bottom end that this thing puts out.
 
#957
MVE said:
Yeah, I'm sure we'll figure it out.
I was just trying to make the point that I am just becoming accustomed to the amount of lovely foucused bottom end that this thing puts out.
Click to expand...

I had the same thing happen recently. My Duo plays "When I was your Man" (Bruno Mars) There is one section where the song goes to a Bb Major chord. It always sounded dissonant. So I watched my acoustic guitarist partner and realized he was not muting the open low E string. Once I mentioned it, ....that dissonance has not happened again.
 
#959
On a serious note and derail... I found I learned the most about eq and instrument relationship when messing around with mixing home recordings. You have time to dig around and see what works if you have the proper equipment. While this doesn't necessarily inform you what to do in a live setting, it increases your knowledge of the interactions of instruments. Just food for thought. Now back to Bergs.
 
#960
I've found myself grabbing my HD112 and leaving the HD210 at home for the last month or so. And every time I grab the 112 I'm thinking that a CN112 @ 27lbs would be that much nicer to carry. I've got a guy locally that would like my 210 so I'm going to flip the 210 and go with a CN112. As mentioned before. The HD and CN 112's should play very nice together.
 
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