Thanks Doug. I kind of had a thought along the same lines, but I'm technically "unsavvy" as they say. I may be selling my AE212 if anyone is interested shoot me a PM.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
New Bergantino Neo Line; Pt. 2
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
Thanks Doug. I kind of had a thought along the same lines, but I'm technically "unsavvy" as they say. I may be selling my AE212 if anyone is interested shoot me a PM.
I agree with your assessment. That too has been my experience. Which cab are you taking when you return to that room?
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
My other cab is an AE410 which gets the job done. I've thought about selling it but now it's clear I still need it. The CN212 really seems to be voiced much higher, especially compared to the AE212 which had a deeper low end pillow going on than the AE410. My Fender ADJV has the biggest booty of all my basses and thats the one I need to take in that room with the AE410 in the future.
Definitely VERY different from the big, deep, smooth AE212 for sure (although quite a bit louder and meatier in the low mids). I found my AE410 to be brighter up top, and a bit tighter down low than the CN212 (of course, TOTALLY different from the 'hi fi' sounding AE212). Absolute volume is IME virtually identical between the AE410 and CN212 (the CN212 pretty significantly outperforms the AE212 regarding max volume), with the CN212 sounding relatively similar to the AE410, but just a touch smoother up top, and just a bit fatter down low, which are both 'in the right direction' for me.
LOVED the AE410, which was my go to gig cab for about 4 years. Still totally dig the AE212 also, and still own that (since it is so different sounding from the CN212). Personally, I found the AE410 redundant and sold it, but it does sound a bit different, and it does hit hard. Nothing wrong with that!
I can see if you have a very low end heavy instrument, that the somewhat tighter/brighter AE410 might be the one for you!
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I kinda wish I would have kept the AE212. Thats a very cool sounding cabinet. I've AB'ed the AE410 and CN212 and maybe I need to do it again at higher volume levels, because I'm not hearing what you are hearing. At lower testing levels, the AE410 has more lows and overall it's got a different "balance" than the CN212 which has it's own thing going on. I just can't get over how gosh darned light that cabinet is, and with a bad lower back that CN212 is a god send!
Yeah, crank those two up to really compare. Both sound great. Of course, different heads interact a bit differently with different cabs, so hard to totally generalize.
There is something to that massive low mid punch of the AE410 for sure. I will always dig that one, and it hammers. Definitely each have their own tone for sure, even if it is in the same 'punchy/mid present' tone universe to my ear. And yeah, the AE212 is a very different sounding box than both of them for sure.
I don't think I posted this pic in this thread (can't remember), but here is a rig I've been gigging lately that is quite a bit different than the Aguilar TH500/P Bass I've been gigging for the last couple of years or so (and that I will definitely still use as my primary gigging rig with the CN212).
Fun... super punchy, massively clean. Super articulate feeling and sounding. Fun for a change of pace.
The B string of the Roscoe through this rig is something to experience. Rare combination of 'huge sounding' but yet totally round and articulate... no flub at all!
Fun... super punchy, massively clean. Super articulate feeling and sounding. Fun for a change of pace.
The B string of the Roscoe through this rig is something to experience. Rare combination of 'huge sounding' but yet totally round and articulate... no flub at all!
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Nice Ken. I can see how that Roscoe with that pickup spacing is punch city. My take (FWIW) is that the CN Series has no flub because it does not have near the low end extension that the AE series does. I think it has very defined curve in the low end and then the low end response drops off like the Mariana's trench. It reminds me of how Fdecks HPF clips the lowest freqs and really cleans up the bottom. I'm not disagreeing or arguing, I think the low end is super defined and punchy as dickens on the CN212. Something the AE212 doesn't do and why I sold it. And I bought the CN212 based on your video demonstration. It does what it does really well.
+1 Way less extended than the AE212, which is one of the reasons it is so much louder in an absolute sense. Again, to my ear, this does not hold at all comparing it to the 10 loaded AE's, but yes, the AE212 is much less upper bass/lower mid present, and seems to extend a full 5hz or more down low. +1.
Nice to have both voices in the stable!
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I have to disagree that the CN212 has less low end extension than an AE410. Could be a matter of perception, or attributed to differences in basses, right hand touch, or maybe one players defintion of "low end extension" is an other mans 'upper bass'. Not sure. But in any case, I have yet to gig the CN212 with any of my regular bands in familiar venues where I feel I am missing anything that I was getting from my former AE410.
I LOVED my AE410 and gigged it in every conceivable setting ranging from sparse to dense band mixes, quiet cocktail settings, stupid loud volumes on a couple occasions when there was no FOH etc. The AE410 never let me down. I would be happy gigging with an AE410 anytime. But the weight savings of the CN212 was just too compelling. I had to try one.
On a couple gigs with my AE410, a bass player friend that I respect said my sound was more tight and focused opposed to being punchy, focused "and" 'supportive.' The CN212 is the first single cab to come along and ever challenge and replace my AE410. I am well pleased and don't feel like I 'lost' any sonic capability whatsoever.
I personally feel the overall frequency response of the CN212 is somewhat more 'complete' in a band mix compared to my former AE410. It is my perception that the CN212 adds a 'supportive' punchy sound along with fast, focused, articulate complex mids and sweet top end .... like you get from a well recorded bass track in a studio music mix.
But that's just my opinion. Not meaning to be argumentative at all.
I LOVED my AE410 and gigged it in every conceivable setting ranging from sparse to dense band mixes, quiet cocktail settings, stupid loud volumes on a couple occasions when there was no FOH etc. The AE410 never let me down. I would be happy gigging with an AE410 anytime. But the weight savings of the CN212 was just too compelling. I had to try one.
On a couple gigs with my AE410, a bass player friend that I respect said my sound was more tight and focused opposed to being punchy, focused "and" 'supportive.' The CN212 is the first single cab to come along and ever challenge and replace my AE410. I am well pleased and don't feel like I 'lost' any sonic capability whatsoever.
I personally feel the overall frequency response of the CN212 is somewhat more 'complete' in a band mix compared to my former AE410. It is my perception that the CN212 adds a 'supportive' punchy sound along with fast, focused, articulate complex mids and sweet top end .... like you get from a well recorded bass track in a studio music mix.
But that's just my opinion. Not meaning to be argumentative at all.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Exactly. You sit everyone down in the same room, and starting using a parametric EQ and a tone generator and pretty soon all of the varying opinions dissolve as the numbers tell the story.
The experiences we all have in life may be more identical than the language we use to describe our subjective experience.
I think the CN has a pretty nice low end. It is big, round, punchy,,, but I could see where it does not have that really big Low Low end, hit an open E string stadium rock bloom kind of thing.
I think I wrote in a post just after getting my CN that it reminded me a little bit of a sealed cab in the way the low end was very tight and controlled.
I like it... YMMV.
I think I wrote in a post just after getting my CN that it reminded me a little bit of a sealed cab in the way the low end was very tight and controlled.
I like it... YMMV.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
OK! I ordered a CN212 today- I play mostly upright bass- but have recently started playing electric gig again- and I know I should not complain about weight and tranporting cabs- I have Epi. UL2 15's and a 210- which in my experience are reasonable it weight- I would like to only deal with one cab- I'm thinking the 212 be a good compromise to the 15/210 combo I have.
For those out there- I have recently purchased an aguilar th350- I did a gig with it last week and was very satisfied - played it through my epi rig- seemed to handle very well- should I expect the same with the CN212? I think down the road I will pick up a th500 just because they really don't cost that much in the scheme of things.
Does anyone have experience with the CN212 and a tH350? any reservations playing that rig in medium size club with reasonable volume? blues, classic rock etc....
For those out there- I have recently purchased an aguilar th350- I did a gig with it last week and was very satisfied - played it through my epi rig- seemed to handle very well- should I expect the same with the CN212? I think down the road I will pick up a th500 just because they really don't cost that much in the scheme of things.
Does anyone have experience with the CN212 and a tH350? any reservations playing that rig in medium size club with reasonable volume? blues, classic rock etc....
Calling Ken Jung! *Pretty sure he has a TH350 and has used it with the Berg CN212.
LOL- I was going to private message him or email him- but he has private settings- which I certainly respect!!! I read a few comments about his experiences- one of the reasons why I pulled the trigger! But I do hope he and others chime in on this scenario!
I have the TH350 and the TH500 (I bought the TH350 for my practice space to leave set up since I dug the TH500 so much). I recently took the TH350 out with the CN212 just to see what it would do. Very impressive. Yes, the 'clip' light will come on when you really push it (remember, that does NOT indicate reaching the limit of the power amp, only that you are pushing the pre past 'totally clean input to the power amp' post master volume. It was impressive as heck. Yes, the TH500 is the one I recommend, since it isn't much bigger, isn't that much more expensive, and effortlessly pumps the big low end. But, the TH350, which uses the same power module as the Genz 6 series amps and the GK MB500 is VERY conservatively rated, and the CN212 is quite efficient.
You should be fine, but your plan of getting the TH500 down the road is a good one... just that big more volume and open low end that can make a meaningful difference when digging in at the end of the night.
IMO and IME!
Edit: I played the Epi UL's for many years. The CN212 will be a different experience. Much more mid present, much more even transition for the top of the driver to the tweeter (i.e., it doesn't do that very airy 'tweeter floating above the driver' super hi fi thing that the Epi UL's are known for). Make sure you don't judge the CN212 until you have a few hours of playing on it, since those heavy duty drivers are quite tight right out of the box, making the cab sound a bit more mid present than it truly is. The low end opens a touch after a few hours of playing (this isn't true with many cabs, but this one, and a few others like the Baer cabs, really opens up a bit after a few hours of those surrounds loosening a bit). Hope you dig it. It will be a bit of a shock coming from the much more mid polite Epi UL's, especially the UL210, which is really mid scooped to my ear (nice cab, but mostly lows and treble to my ear).
I have a CN212 and the TH350. To be honest, I bought the TH350 mostly for the size. A true gig-bag sized amp that I could use in small acoustic settings, rehearsals, and carry as a back up to a tube amp. I had a GK MB200 at first, but did not like it, and went with the TH350 instead. I never had much intention of using for regular gigging - just something to get me through a gig in a pinch.
Well, I decided to use it on a gig with my full rock band, and dang if I wasn't impressed. We are a 5 piece band... keys, two guits, drums. The guits play amps in the 25 - 30 watt range, so nothing insane, but man the 350 really kicks with the CN.
On a full band gig, I was running my passive jazz with the gain about 9:00 and the master about 12:00. Headroom to spare. Very impressive little amp. I like the tone so much, I am considering a TH500, but wondering if I really need it.
Well, I decided to use it on a gig with my full rock band, and dang if I wasn't impressed. We are a 5 piece band... keys, two guits, drums. The guits play amps in the 25 - 30 watt range, so nothing insane, but man the 350 really kicks with the CN.
On a full band gig, I was running my passive jazz with the gain about 9:00 and the master about 12:00. Headroom to spare. Very impressive little amp. I like the tone so much, I am considering a TH500, but wondering if I really need it.
- Status
