Yeow. didnt realize the huge difference. My cabs sound great, but I really shouldn't
need to be that loud either. Those subways must sound huge as well. Thanks.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
New mesa subway amps and cabs!
- Thread starter mexicant
- Start date
Yeow. didnt realize the huge difference. My cabs sound great, but I really shouldn't
need to be that loud either. Those subways must sound huge as well. Thanks.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,047
- 5
- 221,002
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The logarithmic nature of SPL is daunting, it's one reason why I spend a LOT of time and effort to get as much sensitivity as I can while remaining as true as possible to the tone goals (plus size & weight). Fortunately, cost is not as much of an issue with a premium product line as it is with more mainstream products.
Each speaker designer has their own unique goals, that's what makes it important to actually try out different speakers that you may be interested in because your needs may be different than my goals, or Duke's goals or Mike's goals etc.
Andy while we're at it, an old manager of mine had a rule of thumb that to double the power in a given system would add 3db output, and adding an identical second cab to a head/single cab would add 3db. Is that BS or in the ballpark? IF correct, then would I infer that one of your 800+ and a single subway cab would 'grow' another 12db if I run it with four of the same instead of the single? If that's right, that's amazingly cheap horsepower.
As always, thanks for indulging a complete babe-in-the-woods to all this physics !
As always, thanks for indulging a complete babe-in-the-woods to all this physics !
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,777
- 40,459
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
This is why when I comment on Duke's cabs I always mention needing an amp with some power to spare. Duke made some trades in design that produce excellent results, but require more power (due to lower sensitivity speakers) than some people are used to. I find SW heads are able to power the Hathor and Changeling 12" loaded cabs 8 Ohm cabs nicely, but to get serious volume (especially if you want deeper lows...another trade in Duke's designs) you will not have the kind of headroom you would with higher efficiency cabs like SW's, Bergs, or GKs. Since power is relatively inexpensive and lightweight these days, the trade off seems reasonable, but you do need to recognize that when you start to match up speakers and amps.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,047
- 5
- 221,002
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, it is true in theory, but in practice the theoretical 3dB gain due to coupling of 2 speakers ends up being about 2.5dB for the first doubling, and it falls with each successive doubling because the distance between acoustic centers increases.
For those who may feel the need to argue this with me, IF the 3dB increase were to continue with each doubling, quickly you would find that the calculations reveal a greater than 100% acoustic efficiency.
The 3dB gain with doubling of power continues in a more linear fashion, but again, as the size of the speaker system gets very large you will find that it too begins to decrease.
I'm with you all the way Al, but just wanted to say that a 4 ohm AK 12" cab with a 500 watt amp makes a hell of a racket, and pumps out pretty massive low end for a 112. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone who is new to this discussion. Of course, I mostly play small-medium venues, so if you're playing big ones... (hopefully you have PA support) ...just sayin', since AK's come up.
Last edited:
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,777
- 40,459
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
Agree 100% Tom. I think Duke's cabs work well with an honest 400-500 usable watts on tap. My caution applies to folks who are used to heads like a GK MB200 sounding pretty good and fairly loud with off the shelf cabs. My GK MB500 actually does a decent job of powering my 8 Ohm C112T, but my SW heads and GK MB800 do the job much better.
Of course as you said, with PA/FOH support even a lower powered head might be fine for stage monitor volumes. I really enjoy the C112T (8 Ohm) and WD-800 combination for both stage monitoring and comfortably carrying smaller to medium sized venues with electric guitar players and a drummer.
On Saturday we played a gig at one of the local brew pubs. It was the first time a band was playing in that space this year so we had a few minor challenges to deal with re: the house PA; but, in the end it all worked out. It was my first time playing out with the WD 800 and I remain impressed. We were on a really small stage, so I was standing right in front of the drummer's hi-hat and had my rig set up about 15 ft behind me (just behind the stage): a stack of two GK Neo 410s with only the top cab plugged in (I tried both plugged in at sound check and really didn't need them both- besides I really like my drummer and didn't want to blow his head off).
As I mentioned in a previous post I like to drive the input on the WD 800 at ~ 2-3 o'clock and with one 8 ohm cab that lets me run the master ~ 11-12 before the bass gets louder than needed for stage volume while still getting into the "sweet spot" of tone.
Bottom line- the amp is great! Running flat with a bit of low-mid and mid boost, the P-bass was well-defined in the mix all night.
In response to a question re: how does the Mesa feel vs. GK, IME so far, I like the sound of the Mesa WD 800 + GK Neo 410 cab(s) better than when I drove those cabs with a GK MBF 800. The only feature of the MBF 800 that I miss is having a second channel with separate gain and volume stages so I could switch between "dirt" and "clean" on the fly, but I can recapitulate the OD I want in those situations with a pedal- so, that concern is also covered.
Mark me down as a "satisfied customer"!
As I mentioned in a previous post I like to drive the input on the WD 800 at ~ 2-3 o'clock and with one 8 ohm cab that lets me run the master ~ 11-12 before the bass gets louder than needed for stage volume while still getting into the "sweet spot" of tone.
Bottom line- the amp is great! Running flat with a bit of low-mid and mid boost, the P-bass was well-defined in the mix all night.
In response to a question re: how does the Mesa feel vs. GK, IME so far, I like the sound of the Mesa WD 800 + GK Neo 410 cab(s) better than when I drove those cabs with a GK MBF 800. The only feature of the MBF 800 that I miss is having a second channel with separate gain and volume stages so I could switch between "dirt" and "clean" on the fly, but I can recapitulate the OD I want in those situations with a pedal- so, that concern is also covered.
Mark me down as a "satisfied customer"!
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
215... now on my list of things I didn’t know I needed, probably don’t need, and will probably get anyway.
Well, holy cow. Ordered Sat, WD800 of which there were 0 in the system nationally, landed at my local L&M. NAD just in time for an audition tonight lol.
I haven’t had a new amp since I was 18-a long time ago. Finally plunked down and got 2 15s and the wd800. Best thing to happen to me in a long time. Not only is the amp loud enough, the headroom is fantastic. The input gain is key for me, it changes with every bass. When you find the sweet spot it just sings. Totally mid forward and aggressive. This is what I’ve been looking for. I sound like ‘me’ thru this amp, like an honest replica of what I’m playing, not some scooped , hyped sound. Loving this.
Congrats on the new cab....And man that is a sweet Harley!
