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New mesa subway amps and cabs!

My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.

If I'm not mistaken I think Jim Bergantino also uses popular on his Neo loaded cabinets, and so did Carvin. Used both of those cabinets for years. Lighter weight but never ever ever an issue with the cabinet developing buzzes or rattles. I will agree that popular seems a little easier to dent on say, a corner compared to birch but the differences seem rather incremental.
 
If I'm not mistaken I think Jim Bergantino also uses popular on his Neo loaded cabinets, and so did Carvin. Used both of those cabinets for years. Lighter weight but never ever ever an issue with the cabinet developing buzzes or rattles. I will agree that popular seems a little easier to dent on say, a corner compared to birch but the differences seem rather incremental.
We use corner protection on all of our cabinets, so that's a non-issue.
 
My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.
Although considered a hardwood it is around the same hardness as Okoume and only a third as hard as Baltic Birch at two thirds the weight/ sq ft. It is mostly void free and quality depends on the supplier. It's screw holding properties are weak and It dents easily but if the cabinet is braced and fastened properly it will not come apart and should provide years of service if taken care of. It should never be used for a baffle on a large cabinet. And, that is not a guess. It comes from 50 years of making cabinets; sometimes with anything I could get my hands on.
 
Back when I got the Aguilar 750 my only complaint was the weight. Then the 659 pre with a qsc plx, then with berg ip.
Tube pre has always been my staple. Now a wa800. Perfect. Now I see subway plus pedal into the Mesa prodigy power section. Very strong reason for a new pedal. I has the wa years ago an the power was the only reason I yet to another head. Dang it and I’m gigging at the moment! But I see some strong reasons for doing a new dance with the gear. And yes this a great time to be a bass player.

Hey Andy, I know the Rosetta is for the acoustic , but would the plus pedal work for acoustic guitar? Just curious
 
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Andy, someone is going to ask might as well be me. And I this is an honest question (I am not claiming to be an expert in this area). What was the reasoning for going with the 12At7? Was it to reduce the noise? Can someone replace the 12at7 with a 12ax7 or will that foul the amp up some how?
 
There have been many threads about gear that has not been released yet.
Typically, there are those that like or dislike something without hearing it.
Hard to know if you like it based on words on the internet vs. actually playing one with your hands and instrument and listening with your ears.

But I feel much differently about Mesa gear and giving it praise without hearing it because of two things:

1. Mesa has not been bound by blatent marketing claims without foundation. In other words, their ad copy is not BS from the marketing department but rather a true testament about what you get, warts and all.
2. We have the luxury of having the design engineer, who is always available for questions, on this board and asking what we want. This gentleman has become a trusted source of information with a huge technical background, as well as a career of very succesful products that are robust. He walks the talk and is trustworthy.

Oh, and Andy seeems to really care about moving the quality of bass ampification forward with good engineering and listenting to customers. For this we thank you.

I'm thinking that if Randall sees any of this, and if sales follow, there will be a special holiday envelope in the Agedhorse in-box at the Mesa offices.

Happy Holdiays indeed!
 
My experience with poplar is it is considered a soft wood. I dunno, maybe Italian Polpar is a harder species. But if it is soft wood, thinking about how much abuse a bass cab goes through, through the bumps, bruises, not to mention concussive vibrations, leads me to believe it’s not going to be as durable over the long haul as void free plywood.

I don’t claim to an engineer, and I’m not trying to discourage anybody from buying or enjoying these cabs. That said, it is a point to consider, especially if you are gigging a lot, what is underneath the tolex is important.
I've had a SW112 and 115 for quite a while and find it to be one of the more heavy duty lightweight cabs out there. Is it a 100 pound tank like a PH cab that would tear the bumper off the back of the truck and crack the concrete if you dropped it...not really. Does it have that traditional Mesa strong and solid feel to the build...absolutely does!

I am careful with my gear, but suspect the SW cabs are a lot more robust than their light weight would lead you to believe. There was (and maybe still is) a good video on how Mesa builds and braces the cabs. As an aviation engineer I noticed a lot of tricks of the trade for getting strength and keeping weight down in the design. Please keep in mind that weight doesn't always automatically mean strength.
 
Wow just learned of the WD800 last night and my mind is blown. I am in the “can afford it but can’t quite justify it” camp, for now. I’ve been lusting after the 800 for a year, then couldn’t choose between the 800 & the 800+, now need to decide between the 800+ and the WD800. I’ve gigged with a Mesa M2000 (yes really) for years and while I like it and it's been very dependable, I found it tough to nail sweet spots (my fault, not the amp’s). And it’s 40 lbs. in my rack. Plus I could never justify the $300 for a replacement footswitch so my flexibility was limited. I’ve been gigging smaller places with my Rumble 200+Eden 2x10, but the DI-master-volume issue is a problem.

I happen to really like the official WD800 video – that’s how I play bass. I sometimes feel like I’m the only bassist who doesn’t slap & pop constantly.And I thought the tones sounded pretty good on my PC desktop speakers

Maybe you folks can help me decide between the 800+ and the WD800. The price delta is a non-issue. I play in a rock cover band that plays everything but mostly album cuts – songs people know but never hear anymore. Beatles, Cream, Doors, Cheap Trick, Kinks, Grand Funk, Cars, REM, Mountain, etc. I play mostly clean but have started to include some mild OD. 5-string active for that band, but I will use my passive Fender 1975 Jazz 4 a lot too.

Important-to-me specs both amps have:
- 2 ohm support
- Lots of tones possible
- Lightweight
- DI volume independent of master volume
- Would sound heavenly with my Eden cabs
- A known quantity (Mesa quality and reputation, and US made)

Some advantages in the WD800:
- rack mountable but still super lightweight
- tube OD tone
- power amp damping

Thanks @agedhorse & Mesa!!
 
My Titan can go down to 2 ohms. But not having any 8 omhs version is a big limitation for me. Any 8 omhs version in the future?

No plans for an 8 ohm 410 that I am aware of. If that's a big limitation for you then you should probably look at a different cabinet.

Although considered a hardwood it is around the same hardness as Okoume and only a third as hard as Baltic Birch at two thirds the weight/ sq ft. It is mostly void free and quality depends on the supplier. It's screw holding properties are weak and It dents easily but if the cabinet is braced and fastened properly it will not come apart and should provide years of service if taken care of. It should never be used for a baffle on a large cabinet. And, that is not a guess. It comes from 50 years of making cabinets; sometimes with anything I could get my hands on.

While there can be generalizations made about Popular, there are many species of Poplar with different properties. The reason Poplars in general tend to be void free is due to the way the tree grows, the fineness of the grain/fibers and the location of branches in the trees grown for wood (timber, not pulp). Like I mentioned before, you get what you pay for and this holds true for Poplar. Screw holding properties really don't matter since no cabinet manufacturers that I know of use screws to hold their cabinets together, and quality companies use T-nuts or some form of threaded insert to mount the drivers. As far as denting easily, the hardness of the Poplar that we use isn't all that different from Douglas Fir, below is a hardness chart of American Poplar but we use an even harder Italian Poplar. Since we cut everything we build with a precision CNC system, the plywood that we must be very uniform and a special grade is required to guarantee flatness. Hardness is one of many characteristics of a wood that I might consider when selecting a cabinet material, I also consider resonance, resistance to skew and twist, glue line properties, Young's modulus, X-Y stiffness, etc. Fixating on a single property is a very small component of a speaker system.

My experience goes back over 15 years using Italian Poplar, first with the Shuttle and some Shenandoah cabinets (there are many, thousands out there in the real world without any hardness issues) and later with the Subway cabinets. If you know what you are doing with cabinet design and finishing, Poplar is an outstanding material to build cabinets out of. If I hadn't done it, and there weren't many of you with experience using these very cabinets, I wouldn't state this as fact.

The Janka Hardness Values for some common Wood Species
Wood Hardness
(N)

Brazilian Ebony 16420
Ipe 16390
Cumaru 15470
Ebony 14300
Golden Teak 10400
Merbau 8560
Hickory 8100
Rosewood 7900
White Oak 6000
Birch 5600
Teak 5140
English Oak 5000
Burmese Teak 4600
Black Walnut 4500
Cherry 4200
Mahogany 3600
Douglas Fir 2900
Alder 2600
Chestnut 2400
Poplar 2400
Hemlock 2200
White Pine 1900
Balsa 440

Hey Andy, I know the Rosetta is for the acoustic , but would the plus pedal work for acoustic guitar? Just curious

It will work ok, but lacks the notch filter and the phase switch, both of these are quite useful for an acoustic guitar IMO.

Andy, someone is going to ask might as well be me. And I this is an honest question (I am not claiming to be an expert in this area). What was the reasoning for going with the 12At7? Was it to reduce the noise? Can someone replace the 12at7 with a 12ax7 or will that foul the amp up some how?

The 12AT7 in t he WD-800 better matched the 12AX7 in the Walkabout in the most crucial aspect of maintaining current drive without impacting tone. The circuit properties depend on both voltage and current, maintaining the dynamic properties between the two is part of the way feel and dynamics control are maintained. A 12AX7 will work, but skews well away from the curve that best matches the original Walkabout's intent. You could use a 12AX7, but nobody that worked on the listening panel early in the development cared for it, the 12AT7 was the clear winner, closely followed by the 12AU7.

I happen to really like the official WD800 video – that’s how I play bass. I sometimes feel like I’m the only bassist who doesn’t slap & pop constantly.And I thought the tones sounded pretty good on my PC desktop speakers

Maybe you folks can help me decide between the 800+ and the WD800. The price delta is a non-issue. I play in a rock cover band that plays everything but mostly album cuts – songs people know but never hear anymore. Beatles, Cream, Doors, Cheap Trick, Kinks, Grand Funk, Cars, REM, Mountain, etc. I play mostly clean but have started to include some mild OD. 5-string active for that band, but I will use my passive Fender 1975 Jazz 4 a lot too.

Important-to-me specs both amps have:
- 2 ohm support
- Lots of tones possible
- Lightweight
- DI volume independent of master volume
- Would sound heavenly with my Eden cabs
- A known quantity (Mesa quality and reputation, and US made)

Some advantages in the WD800:
- rack mountable but still super lightweight
- tube OD tone
- power amp damping

Thanks @agedhorse & Mesa!!

I strongly encourage you to play both amps and see which one suits your preference better. It's not a "one is better" scenario, they are just different amps that are likely to appeal to different tastes. Some players might like both amps for different reasons too.