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New Mike Adler TWELVE STRING BASS????

#81
That's great. I like seeing new basses with fresh ideas coming out. Although I am a Fender player myself :D... It's nice to see that people are pushing the envelope. What's crazy and unusual nowadays may become common in 20 years. Most electric basslines 30 years ago were played on 4 strings... wasn't much lower than the occasional dropped D note coming from the bass. These subcontras give range similar to an organ. Also, having all these strings allows a bassist to chord something high up, with an almost guitar-like sound, while a lead instrument solos or something. Not to mention the fact that it encourages a lot of creativity and gives much more options for a solo, whether or not you're playing with others. You won't often need tapping or double thumping in a song, but you learn it anyways... why? Because it's jsut another technique to say you can use if ever the time comes. With an 12 string, you've got everything at your disposal, basically, so what's to stop you? As long as you understand the bass and don't wank off on the Ab string during motown, more power to you.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. If you can play motown on your Ab string and make it work, go for it man! :bassist: :D
 
#82
john turner said:
folks that go past that limit will just make something unplayable for the sake of making it. almost like those car stereo competitions, where they just play test tones, they don't even play music in them.
Click to expand...

That's the point that I'm trying to make. I am not one of those "only use what is necessary" people by any means. I detest the idea that just because, say, the musical Grease doesn't require a 7 string means that I shouldn't play it on one (I've done it now, twice). I am in much agreement with Mr. Beem on that matter - the 88-key piano is a good analogy. But I don't want to see the art of extended range bass (and yes, it is an art, as exemplified by the numerous builders that do them today, but especially, in my eyes, Benevante and Conklin) turned into something that is, to quote the Simpsons, "weird for the sake of weird." If an instrument is practical, playable, and enjoyable, I don't care how many strings it has. But that, not some arms race between builders and players, should be the impetus behind it.
 
#83
mark beem said:
That's your argument???

I guess you consider an 88 key piano overkill on her music also then? Are all 88 keys required to play her catalog "proper"?

Well if you're going to go that far I guess all that would be "required" is a 3 string, huh??

Actually I would venture to say that all that would be "required" for anything would a single E string and 12 frets right? One full octave?

"If you can't do it with 12 notes then you shouldn't do it at all.."

"Two strings is one string too many."

"Less is more."

No PB the REAL point is that it's not about the number of strings on the TOOL but the heart and mind of the person weilding the TOOL.

Some would argue to use the PROPER tool for the job. Well, hey last time I checked there was a B, E, A, D & G string there along with all those others.

:eyebrow:
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Don't get upset, but you still missed the point.
I didn't mean "to get by" (assuming you were the bassist that created the original part...with your suposed 1 string), I meant to properly play the songs the way they were originally recorded, and she would probably want them recreated on stage. Something tells me you don't need 11, or even 9 strings for it, but having played much of her material, a 5 is a must. :cool:

C'mon, the piano analogy doesn't work at all since it's a different instrument with a totally different function and was originally an instrument made for solo performance. Bass Guitar (an instrument with about 100th the heritage of the piano), in it's traditional function, was not.
 
#84
mark beem said:
Some would argue to use the PROPER tool for the job. Well, hey last time I checked there was a B, E, A, D & G string there along with all those others.

:eyebrow:
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Shhh... Be verwy verwy quiet. Ah'm huntin' wabbit. Get mah elwaphent gun.:p

Don't get me wrong, as I said in the much earlier post: I am very suportive of extended range.....to a point. This is just getting to be either you want to be a bassist, or you want to be something else.
 
#85
I think I'll chime in with something serious (for a change). It seems to me that this trend of building instruments with 9, 10, 11 and now 12 string basses is not necessarily because people "need" the extended-extended range. It's about pushing the edge of the envelope. Why do people build hot-rods or rocket cars that can break the sound barrier? It's not because we need to but because we want to.

If someone plays a 12-string bass, it's because they want to, not because they need to. Sometimes the distinction between want and need gets blurred. People need something because they want it. That's good enough for me.

I need 7 strings to play the music that I play. I want 8 or 9 strings to push my playing beyond what I can play now. I don't need it. I want it. Who cares why though. If someone wants to play 12 strings, great! Personally, I don't feel the need or want for a low C# string. I wouldn't mind a good F# (my Warrior 9-string F# ... not so good). I would love to have a couple extra high strings though. Not necessarily just because of the range but because of the additional tonal options I get from being able to play higher notes on a lower fret.

Nobody is going to lose a gig because the bandleader needed them to play a 9-string bass. They may lose a gig if they bring one. That's more due to prejudice than anything though.

People should play exactly as many strings as they want or need. Nobody should have any say over that except the players themselves.

People say that Jaco only needed 4 strings. It's pretty much a cliche now. Even I say it on occasion just for kicks. Then again, Jaco did some of his composition on a piano. I have several recordings with him playing keyboards. Very well at that. Perhaps if he had access to a greater range and the ability to play more chords on his primary instrument, he wouldn't have needed to do so on a keyboard. Jaco was all about pushing the edge of the envelope. I'm sure that if he had access to a nice 6-string fretless, he would have played one. We'll never know for sure though. 6-string basses were somewhat rare when Jaco was in his prime. It's no wonder that he didn't play one. Not many people did. In fact, I can't name a single bassist who played a 6-string bass while Jaco was alive aside from perhaps Anthony Jackson. So, I think the question of how many strings Jaco needed is somewhat moot.

- Dave
 
#86
Dave Grossman said:
People say that Jaco only needed 4 strings. It's pretty much a cliche now. Even I say it on occasion just for kicks. Then again, Jaco did some of his composition on a piano. I have several recordings with him playing keyboards. Very well at that. Perhaps if he had access to a greater range and the ability to play more chords on his primary instrument, he wouldn't have needed to do so on a keyboard.

- Dave
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i doubt that an extended range bass would have ever replaced the piano as a composition tool for him. bass players today that compose still primarily use the piano or guitar for composition even with the availability of extended range basses. having a 12 string bass seems like a tenor sax player saying-"i want a horn that has the range of a bari sax all the way to a piccolo flute, but i still want to call it a tenor sax". we are playing the BASS guitar arent we?
 
#87
narud said:
i doubt that an extended range bass would have ever replaced the piano as a composition tool for him. bass players today that compose still primarily use the piano or guitar for composition even with the availability of extended range basses. having a 12 string bass seems like a tenor sax player saying-"i want a horn that has the range of a bari sax all the way to a piccolo flute, but i still want to call it a tenor sax". we are playing the BASS guitar arent we?
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There's a difference between "compositional tool" and "performing instrument." Sure, he probably still would've COMPOSED on the piano, but there's nothing to say he wouldn't play on an ERB. Personally, I think he most certainly would've. Didn't he have an acoustic five string tuned EADGC?
 
#89
Mark Latimour said:
Invalid Link Removed

Courtesy of Funkycarnivore....

You know...now I have seen it.....i've seen bigger...
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If I were inclined to tackle something like that, I'd have to have the nut changed to "side to side" spacing rather than the "center to center" spacing employed by this. Those low strings are getting pretty crowded up there.
 
#91
Nice custom fanned bridge. I think that's also a first.

I'd like to know how much it weighs, and what all the knobs are for.

Also, much respect for giving it a piano-black finish, as opposed to the usual exotic-wood eye candy. Nice with something different.

But also, as PB says, the string spacing on the bigger strings at the nut seems a bit strange.
 
#96
j-raj said:
Tim Tucker,

I understand tha you need to change the nut on a bass if you are going to change the gauge of strings, do you have to change the bridge as well? Even if you use tapers for the lowest strings?

...
Click to expand...
Most bridges are designed to accept any diameter of string. The only catch might be that on an instrument with such extreme variation of string diameters, you could run out of height adjustment range if all the saddles are identical, if there is a limited adjustment amount available, and if you didn't use tapers on the lower string(s).

Instruments properly designed with a string separator and a zero fret instead of a nut can have no problems at the nut end, also.
 
#98
PhatBasstard said:
If I were inclined to tackle something like that, I'd have to have the nut changed to "side to side" spacing rather than the "center to center" spacing employed by this. Those low strings are getting pretty crowded up there.
Click to expand...

I agree-Al Caldwell has that on his new 11-string. Besides the nut issue, it looks pretty. I'd like to see in in someone's hands for a scale reference.
 
#100
the ombudsman said:
So, what's the tuning? Why ten knobs on a single pickup instrument? Why the odd string spacing at the nut?

I can't say I'm impressed from what I can see in that pic, construction-wise. They could keep it clean, too. :hmm:
Click to expand...

perhaps the first row is for the magnetic pickup and the second row is for a piezo system?

this bass must weigh at least 30 pounds. id have to get a stand for it.
 

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