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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects
- Thread starter CharlieC
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- b3n multi-effects zoom
Yep! So a setting of -1 makes my open E string sound like Eb. There are two effects that can do this. The one I reference above is sort of ok, and the other one is abysmal.
Ok, thanks.... I actually got a B3N today and I'm about to un-box it.... I appreciate the info.
I'm afraid the updates will be like b3's, just a few or nothing..
So, I happen to have a Picoscope 3206 USB digital oscilloscope. It's only an 8 bit machine so it certainly will not plumb the depths of a B3n's performance but I have found it quite useful as a tool to evaluate amateur radio transmitter performance even though 8 bits is insufficient to fully characterize them too. I hooked it up last night and took some quick level measurements of as many effects as I had time for. Some effects do not generate a stable output level so I skipped those for now. The Picoscope has a test tone generator whose frequency and waveform can be controlled but curiously not its level. The measurements below were made at its native output level 1Vp-p which admittedly is not a good choice for some effects but I did not have time to take this any further last night. Already this morning I have rigged up an old Jazz control plate so that I can use its volume control to set the level going forward.
The list below is the p-p output level for various effects with 1Vp-p (or 1000mVp-p as I call it below) input. The first section characterizes the master volume setting with an "Empty" or thru patch. I never have learned how to make TB post columns of data in a friendly format so the volume control measurements are the setting (0-120) of the master volume control followed by the voltage and the voltage gain in dB. Following that are the effects levels where the three columns are the effect name, voltage, and gain in dB. There are also headings for the effects groups as Zoom defines them. All effects are measured as they are on my unit currently which I believe to be the factory setting.
There's nothing earthshaking here. The volume levels do vary which is annoying but without being an expert at digital signal processing in general or DSP for bass guitar effects in particular it is impossible for me to say if there are real reasons why Zoom has them set up this way or if they are just being lazy. I don't know that the information I am presenting here is going to be terribly useful to me or any of you. It's more a matter of confirming what we already know about the volume settings of effects and potentially patches too although I don't know if I find any of Zoom's patches useful enough to bother measuring.
My intent, we'll see if I follow through with it, is to characterize some or all of the effects in the B3n in a way that will help me use them most effectively. I'm not sure I even have a clue as to how to characterize some of them. I am willing to entertain suggestions from you about that. I've already made one discovery along those lines. When I first looked at the output of the Vibe it looked exactly like the output of the Tremolo which was a disappointment to me, both had a strong variation in volume. That was so disappointing in fact that I went back to the Vibe this morning and took a closer look at it. I set up the Picoscope to measure frequency as well as volume and then I could see that the Vibe was varying both amplitude and frequency where the Tremolo varied only frequency. Closer, but still not really what I hoped for. Then I decided to twist the "Mode" know from Chors to Vibrt and the amplitude variation mostly went away! There are many control knobs in the various effects whose function is not obvious to me. I hope to be able to figure at least some of them out and that might suggest to the brain ways to use these effects that the ear would find only by a long period of trial and error. One can hope anyway.
So, as I say I am willing to entertain requests from you all if any of you find this interesting. I make no promises as to how long it would take me to measure anything you ask for. Left to my own devices I will probably start with the compressors since they seem in most need of further information for their most effective use. Charts and graphs of response to input level and control settings may not be as nice as an output level or compression level meter but they would hopefully be better than nothing. I'm not an effects junkie with vast experience at using stand alone effects boxes. The only ones I have ever used are these Zoom multi-effects boxes so I have a big learning curve to climb that many of you may not need to climb because you can transfer your experience with standalone boxes to these digital simulations.
Input Level 1007 mVp-p
Master Volume Thru
Setting mV dB
10 99.7 -20.1
50 477 -6.5
100 949 -0.5
101 996 -0.1
102 1042 0.3
105 1187 1.4
110 1421 3.0
115 1655 4.3
120 1885 5.4
Reverb
Plate 789 -2.1
Spring 1166 1.3
HD Hall 777 -2.3
Hall 740 -2.7
Room 1087 0.7
Air 1425 3.0
Delay
Hold Delay 2040 6.1
Analog 1289 2.1
Delay 2040 6.1
SFX
Defret 1167 1.3
Syntalk 862 -1.4
Bomber 995 -0.1
Modulation
Ba Octave 2570 8.1
HPS 1666 4.4
Cab
AC 1x18 1466 3.3
TE 4x10 1363 2.6
AG4x10TW 1285 2.1
SMR4x10TW 1452 3.2
FD-B4x12 1777 4.9
SVT8x10 974 -0.3
Amp
AC-370 1355 2.6
TE400 SMX 1208 1.6
AG-750 1334 2.4
SMR-400 1496 3.4
BMAN-100 1768 4.9
AMPG-SVT 2728 8.7
Drive
BassMetal 864 -1.3
BaFzSmile 603 -4.5
VooDoo-B 1392 2.8
BlueB BOD 572 -4.9
Dark OD 1173 1.3
Bass Ts DRV 692 -3.3
Bass OD 2023 6.1
Bass Pre 2663 8.4
DI-5 1484 3.4
Bass BB 1059 0.4
Dark Pre 1934 5.7
DI Plus 1100 0.8
Bass DRV 1642 4.2
TS+Boost 1136 1.0
NYC Muff 447 -7.1
EP Stomp 2323 7.3
The list below is the p-p output level for various effects with 1Vp-p (or 1000mVp-p as I call it below) input. The first section characterizes the master volume setting with an "Empty" or thru patch. I never have learned how to make TB post columns of data in a friendly format so the volume control measurements are the setting (0-120) of the master volume control followed by the voltage and the voltage gain in dB. Following that are the effects levels where the three columns are the effect name, voltage, and gain in dB. There are also headings for the effects groups as Zoom defines them. All effects are measured as they are on my unit currently which I believe to be the factory setting.
There's nothing earthshaking here. The volume levels do vary which is annoying but without being an expert at digital signal processing in general or DSP for bass guitar effects in particular it is impossible for me to say if there are real reasons why Zoom has them set up this way or if they are just being lazy. I don't know that the information I am presenting here is going to be terribly useful to me or any of you. It's more a matter of confirming what we already know about the volume settings of effects and potentially patches too although I don't know if I find any of Zoom's patches useful enough to bother measuring.
My intent, we'll see if I follow through with it, is to characterize some or all of the effects in the B3n in a way that will help me use them most effectively. I'm not sure I even have a clue as to how to characterize some of them. I am willing to entertain suggestions from you about that. I've already made one discovery along those lines. When I first looked at the output of the Vibe it looked exactly like the output of the Tremolo which was a disappointment to me, both had a strong variation in volume. That was so disappointing in fact that I went back to the Vibe this morning and took a closer look at it. I set up the Picoscope to measure frequency as well as volume and then I could see that the Vibe was varying both amplitude and frequency where the Tremolo varied only frequency. Closer, but still not really what I hoped for. Then I decided to twist the "Mode" know from Chors to Vibrt and the amplitude variation mostly went away! There are many control knobs in the various effects whose function is not obvious to me. I hope to be able to figure at least some of them out and that might suggest to the brain ways to use these effects that the ear would find only by a long period of trial and error. One can hope anyway.
So, as I say I am willing to entertain requests from you all if any of you find this interesting. I make no promises as to how long it would take me to measure anything you ask for. Left to my own devices I will probably start with the compressors since they seem in most need of further information for their most effective use. Charts and graphs of response to input level and control settings may not be as nice as an output level or compression level meter but they would hopefully be better than nothing. I'm not an effects junkie with vast experience at using stand alone effects boxes. The only ones I have ever used are these Zoom multi-effects boxes so I have a big learning curve to climb that many of you may not need to climb because you can transfer your experience with standalone boxes to these digital simulations.
Input Level 1007 mVp-p
Master Volume Thru
Setting mV dB
10 99.7 -20.1
50 477 -6.5
100 949 -0.5
101 996 -0.1
102 1042 0.3
105 1187 1.4
110 1421 3.0
115 1655 4.3
120 1885 5.4
Reverb
Plate 789 -2.1
Spring 1166 1.3
HD Hall 777 -2.3
Hall 740 -2.7
Room 1087 0.7
Air 1425 3.0
Delay
Hold Delay 2040 6.1
Analog 1289 2.1
Delay 2040 6.1
SFX
Defret 1167 1.3
Syntalk 862 -1.4
Bomber 995 -0.1
Modulation
Ba Octave 2570 8.1
HPS 1666 4.4
Cab
AC 1x18 1466 3.3
TE 4x10 1363 2.6
AG4x10TW 1285 2.1
SMR4x10TW 1452 3.2
FD-B4x12 1777 4.9
SVT8x10 974 -0.3
Amp
AC-370 1355 2.6
TE400 SMX 1208 1.6
AG-750 1334 2.4
SMR-400 1496 3.4
BMAN-100 1768 4.9
AMPG-SVT 2728 8.7
Drive
BassMetal 864 -1.3
BaFzSmile 603 -4.5
VooDoo-B 1392 2.8
BlueB BOD 572 -4.9
Dark OD 1173 1.3
Bass Ts DRV 692 -3.3
Bass OD 2023 6.1
Bass Pre 2663 8.4
DI-5 1484 3.4
Bass BB 1059 0.4
Dark Pre 1934 5.7
DI Plus 1100 0.8
Bass DRV 1642 4.2
TS+Boost 1136 1.0
NYC Muff 447 -7.1
EP Stomp 2323 7.3
That's interesting - can you tell if the master volume is a roughly logarithmic scale? Also, see Zoom B3n - Guitar Lab, OMG WTH - I'm doing my own investigations into this unit.
Hello fellow low end players new to bass talk but wanted to ask how is this B3n sound going thru big rigs? I know its probably awesome for computer use and may be recording but is it a good gigging pedal? I play thru a amps svt pro with peavy 8×10 cab also just got a scr di for a preamp and d.i mainly and of course to add more tone and grit to sound,would buying this B3n just sound as good with live sound then building a pedal board? Just wanted opinions on it now $200 isn't bad at all just to have a toy to play with but I'm really looking to add chorus delay few other effect to my live sound...mainly play metal funk if that's a style think faith no more meets primus lol ok thx for any response
No reason it won't work well like that. You'll have relatively instant access to three effects, and within seconds access to up to seven.
I use mine for live use only. Play through a PF350 into 2x210av stack. Makes my little stack sound like an SVT.
I'm also wondering I've heard that term never get multi effects just pay 1000s of dollars and get all sepret pedals lol just wanna make sure it will cut thru good thru a big rig I had a boss pedal years ago but didn't dig it much and it really took away my tone..thx dudes I'm gonna get this pedal don't think I can go wrong with it looks real fun
If you set it up right, it will do wonders for your tone through a big rig.
It's one of those magical statements which means: if it sounds good, you managed to set it up right! If it sounds bad, you didn't manage it.
This is true for most of the multi Fx pedals, the only question is, how much woodoo you have to make it work, or you just choose the effect you want to use, and it works without black magic.
Read through CharlieC's post's about setting gain stage, and have fun with it. It's an easy board to get around on.It's one of those magical statements which means: if it sounds good, you managed to set it up right! If it sounds bad, you didn't manage it.
Can confirm. Gigged with it last night and got a result I was happy with. Hey by the way, earlier in this thread we talked about BaMnPitch. Here's a few seconds from Black Velvet last night, with BaMnPitch taking me down by a half step. B3n into Markbass JB Players School driving a 151HR cabinet. Recorded about 15 feet away by a Zoom H2n, then I applied a multiband compressor and then a limiter. Forgive my poor intonation.
Black Velvet Zoom B3n BaMnPitch -1 - Clyp
I don't have this yet :Ol (sounds like I will). I do have the B1on. I think I have mine running good through my rig because, when my fellow bass geeks hear me play through it and play it themselves. They can't believe it's a $50 pedal. I use a lot of envelopes, chorus, compressors, octaves. A little grind or tube warmth once in awhile, not too much. I am sure the B3n sounds better, especially in the tube area. Good Times
In which the limits of several of my abilities are nakedly evident: intonation, soloing over a mode, managing a looper. Still not the worst thing ever. Sounds and loops made through my Zoom B3n. The groove is "Human After All" by Daft Punk. I recorded this using my B3's USB interface then applied some multiband compression.
Spblat's Bass is Human After All - Clyp
Spblat's Bass is Human After All - Clyp
I have been playing with some different kinds of settings today, the modulation selection is really limited at present, and phasers, flangers etc sound really weird on bass compared to guitar, so dialing them in takes a lot more patience for me, but I managed to make a patch with no amp/cab, made to take advantage of the physical amp I'm playing into (winder how it will sound direct, probably bad lol but I can adjust for that if/when necessary).
I think I'm getting a slightly better ear for bass tone now, as opposed to trying to make it sound like a deeper version of a guitar tone, which is not the best approach.
I think I'm getting a slightly better ear for bass tone now, as opposed to trying to make it sound like a deeper version of a guitar tone, which is not the best approach.
