NFL 2023-2024

[Gaolee]

Everyone fusses about the refs, but have you ever considered the job they are trying to do? You have 4 guys trying to watch 22 big fast men over a huge area, without slow-mo, replay, or multiple angles. How easy is it for the back judge to go right and the play go left? All those nice things the armchair refs have at their disposal along with biased announcers telling them how bad the call was. If you really want accurate refereeing, they would need to put 4 more refs in a booth with huge monitor and access to every camera angle. Add 30 secs between each play to allow for instant replay review. No more hurry up offense, no more quick snaps, no more 2 min drill. Add 3-4 hours to the game and reduce Sunday to only 2 games not 3. Likely add a "No Call" challenge like the XFl or USFL has as well.

Any time you are trying to call a game as a ref or umpire, it's tough. I got roped into umping a game my son played in as about a 9 year old. I got stuck behind the plate. He came up to bat with two outs in the last inning and the bases loaded. The opposing pitcher could actually get the ball over the plate. I called the kid out, looking. Hilarity ensued. He is 33 now and still hasn't let me forget that I'm blind.

 

[MJ5150]

That’s all true and valid. And it’s also true that same ref had 58 minutes to throw that same flag. And 13 other games this year to throw it.

I am the first one to say even to youth players “you can take the referee call you disagree with out of the equation by playing better the whole game”.
But it’s still a bad look when the zebra decides who wins.
Toney has cost the Chiefs some points this year already. Not making excuses for him.

I didn't follow the game closely enough to know if the refs ignored an offensive player offside and let the play go on. Did you notice at other times in the game the ref not calling offsides?
What I do see often is a player offsides, then he looks down the line at the ref and takes a step back. That happens frequently and the way it should be done.
As for the other 13 games, are you saying that was the first time this season that ref made that call?
You're spot on about Toney. I followed him since college. There's a reason the Giants traded him away, and he was their first round pick.

-Mike

 

[Killing Floor]

Any time you are trying to call a game as a ref or umpire, it's tough. I got roped into umping a game my son played in as about a 9 year old. I got stuck behind the plate. He came up to bat with two outs in the last inning and the bases loaded. The opposing pitcher could actually get the ball over the plate. I called the kid out, looking. Hilarity ensued. He is 33 now and still hasn't let me forget that I'm blind.

My dad umpired high school baseball when I was growing up. Man, there were some rough Mondays at school for a couple years until I got gig enough to handle it.

 

[SoonerBill]

I am not a Bills fan. I don't want any AFC East team to win except the Dolphins. But I do have a pet peeve about the number of no-calls on obvious infractions in college and pro football.
Toney lined up offsides. Toney knows to look down the line and make sure no part of his body is beyond the line of scrimmage. And he still lined up offsides. So, did the ref determine the outcome of the game by calling a legitimate infraction or did the player determine the outcome of the game by breaking a rule he's known since little league.

 

[GregC]

Kinda sad watching Reid and Mahomes crying about the call.
During halftime of the PHI/DAL game, they interviewed former referee Terry McAulay. He acknowledged that penalty was not called much in the past, but across the NFL, it is being called more often. If what he said is true, and I don't have a reason to believe he made the stats up, the players and coaches are aware of the increased efforts to enforce that penalty. You blew it KC, stop crying.

-Mike

What Mahomes said afterwards was consistent with what he said the week before when that pass interference in the final minute wasn't called--he didn't complain about that one because he wants to refs to let them play. He had the same message here. We can disagree about the rationale, but his message is the same whether it helps or hurts his team.

 

[GregC]

Everyone fusses about the refs, but have you ever considered the job they are trying to do? You have 4 guys trying to watch 22 big fast men over a huge area, without slow-mo, replay, or multiple angles. How easy is it for the back judge to go right and the play go left? All those nice things the armchair refs have at their disposal along with biased announcers telling them how bad the call was. If you really want accurate refereeing, they would need to put 4 more refs in a booth with huge monitor and access to every camera angle. Add 30 secs between each play to allow for instant replay review. No more hurry up offense, no more quick snaps, no more 2 min drill. Add 3-4 hours to the game and reduce Sunday to only 2 games not 3. Likely add a "No Call" challenge like the XFl or USFL has as well.

Side note: Over the years, the NFL has expanded referee crews to seven officials. I get it, though, it's still a very tough job.
Interactive: NFL Officials' Roles and Responsibilities | NFL Football Operations

 

[MJ5150]

What Mahomes said afterwards was consistent with what he said the week before when that pass interference in the final minute wasn't called--he didn't complain about that one because he wants to refs to let them play. He had the same message here. We can disagree about the rationale, but his message is the same whether it helps or hurts his team.

The way he acted on the sidelines yesterday isn't helping. I'm surprised Reid didn't squash that right when it started getting out of control. Make your point, but be a man about it. Like he did last week.
KC has mostly easy games from here on out. Hopefully they can easily win those games so we don't have to witness that again. Or hey, maybe we're at the end of the road for Mahomes and he's starting to slowly unravel.

-Mike

 

[foal30]

Is Toney clearly offside?

If so whataboutism doesn’t make him onside

Certainly would have preferred a Chiefs win here....Bengals need help for a wildcard

 

[SoonerBill]

Is Toney clearly offside?

If so whataboutism doesn’t make him onside

Certainly would have preferred a Chiefs win here....Bengals need help for a wildcard

I watched the play on You Tube a few times. Yes, his foot was clearly across the line of scrimmage.
Would that change how the play went? No. But if it's a rule it should be called.

 

[bassicmike]

Toney was clearly in the Neutral Zone.

Is it the refs job you tell him? No. That kind of thing could lead to all kinds of accusations of bias.

So think about it. The ref informs Toney he's offside before the play. The play is run, no penalty, TD. The ref had a direct impact on the outcome of the game.

Should the ref comment IF ASKED? Maybe, I dunno. I'm sure it's covered in the NFL rulebook.

 

[bassicmike]

But seriously, KC's receivers s-u-c-k.

 

[SoonerBill]

Toney was clearly in the Neutral Zone.

Is it the refs job you tell him? No. That kind of thing could lead to all kinds of accusations of bias.

So think about it. The ref informs Toney he's offside before the play. The play is run, no penalty, TD. The ref had a direct impact on the outcome of the game.

Should the ref comment IF ASKED? Maybe, I dunno. I'm sure it's covered in the NFL rulebook.

Asking has been discussed all over sports coverage today. Apparently it's common for receivers to ask and the refs will either "thumbs up" or make a "move back" motion. But Toney didn't ask.

 

[gln1955]

The need to shoot a laser across the line of scrimmage as well as the line to gain.

 

[Killing Floor]

I watched the play on You Tube a few times. Yes, his foot was clearly across the line of scrimmage.
Would that change how the play went? No. But if it's a rule it should be called.

Agree if it’s a rule it should be enforced and players and coaches and all officials should be trained to know it and enforce it.
So far in this season there have been 207 NFL games played and this rule has been enforced 11 times (I said 12 earlier and looked it up) in 2023 and 2 times in 2022.
That’s not in any way consistent with a rule the League intends to enforce or that coaches intend to train around. Teams starting in 1st grade obsessively practice to teach players to not go offsides or false start on counts. Teams practice obsessively about ball control and excess contact in pass plays and every OL knows exactly how many forward steps they are able to take before becoming an ineligible receiver. Every special teams player knows kick-catch rules and kicker contact rules since 1st grade. And now that head injuries have gained the attention they should have always had children through professionals are rigorously coached in proper contact.

Point is you’re right, if it’s a rule it should be enforced equally and consistently. Not arguing that it’s in the modified rule book.

But not including overtime the League has had 12,480 minutes to make that call and someone is right on the non visible neutral line nearly every snap in every game.

So call it or don’t but do not “remember” it’s an important rule on a team’s final possession in a single score game. That’s where the reaction is coming from. The refs didn’t make up the rule. But they did choose to not enforce it until past the 2 minute warning.

 

[MJ5150]

But seriously, KC's receivers s-u-c-k.

That's what happens when you pay your QB and DT astronomical salaries. Cuts have to come somewhere. Why is Tyreek Hill gone? So KC can have Mahomes, Jones, and to a lesser extent Kelce.
It'll catch up to you eventually, and it might finally be catching up to KC.
Philly, even though they have been struggling, has good players everywhere. Why? Because Jalen Hurts is the ninth highest paid player on that team. Once he gets his $40,000,000 a year, goodbye AJ Brown, Lane Johnson, Fletcher Cox, et al.

-Mike

 

[MJ5150]

Mike Tomlin admits George Pickens’ attitude ‘is a problem’.
Tomlin admits it's a problem, but I'm going to say he does nothing about it since, after all, he's a players coach and their buddy.

-Mike

 

[GregC]

Dolphins have been dropping like flies in this game. Center got hurt, backup came in and caused a fumble on the exchange at the Titans' 2.

Then MVP candidate Tyreek Hill got hurt on an uncalled horse collar tackle halfway through the first quarter. He may not return.

 

[bassicmike]

That's what happens when you pay your QB and DT astronomical salaries. Cuts have to come somewhere. Why is Tyreek Hill gone? So KC can have Mahomes, Jones, and to a lesser extent Kelce.
It'll catch up to you eventually, and it might finally be catching up to KC.
Philly, even though they have been struggling, has good players everywhere. Why? Because Jalen Hurts is the ninth highest paid player on that team. Once he gets his $40,000,000 a year, goodbye AJ Brown, Lane Johnson, Fletcher Cox, et al.

-Mike

You don't have to tell me.

I watched the Pats roster deteriorate as Brady got his money. Like Giselle said, Tom can't catch the passes too.

They stayed good so long because Brady was that good.

 

[gln1955]

That's what happens when you pay your QB and DT astronomical salaries. Cuts have to come somewhere. Why is Tyreek Hill gone? So KC can have Mahomes, Jones, and to a lesser extent Kelce.
It'll catch up to you eventually, and it might finally be catching up to KC.
Philly, even though they have been struggling, has good players everywhere. Why? Because Jalen Hurts is the ninth highest paid player on that team. Once he gets his $40,000,000 a year, goodbye AJ Brown, Lane Johnson, Fletcher Cox, et al.

-Mike

Team? Who cares about the team? It's all about getting paid. When these guys are out of the league in ten years, having 100 million in the bank is more important than a Super Bowl ring.

 

[GregC]

That's what happens when you pay your QB and DT astronomical salaries. Cuts have to come somewhere. Why is Tyreek Hill gone? So KC can have Mahomes, Jones, and to a lesser extent Kelce.
It'll catch up to you eventually, and it might finally be catching up to KC.
Philly, even though they have been struggling, has good players everywhere. Why? Because Jalen Hurts is the ninth highest paid player on that team. Once he gets his $40,000,000 a year, goodbye AJ Brown, Lane Johnson, Fletcher Cox, et al.

-Mike

Team? Who cares about the team? It's all about getting paid. When these guys are out of the league in ten years, having 100 million in the bank is more important than a Super Bowl ring.

Lest we forget, Mahomes won his second ring in February in the first year of his big contract.