NFL 2023-2024

[MJ5150]

You don't have to tell me.

I watched the Pats roster deteriorate as Brady got his money. Like Giselle said, Tom can't catch the passes too.

They stayed good so long because Brady was that good.

That's curious you see it that way. Brady wasn't that greedy when he played, which helped New England repeatedly stock the roster with quality players in multiple positions.
Sure, Brady made sure to get paid, but it was a low enough cap hit so it left the team able to sign quality players in other positions.

-Mike

 

[MJ5150]

Lest we forget, Mahomes won his second ring in February in the first year of his big contract.

Exactly, they were nearly unbeatable when he was cheap. Now that he's getting paid, the roster adjustments to accommodate that big payday are catching up with KC.

-Mike

 

[GregC]

Exactly, they were nearly unbeatable when he was cheap. Now that he's getting paid, the roster adjustments to accommodate that big payday are catching up with KC.

-Mike

They won one ring when he was cheap, one when he was expensive. Now they're barely 75% of the way through the second season of the contract. Let's not go all "First Take" and jump to early conclusions.

 

[GregC]

Dolphins have been dropping like flies in this game. Center got hurt, backup came in and caused a fumble on the exchange at the Titans' 2.

Then MVP candidate Tyreek Hill got hurt on an uncalled horse collar tackle halfway through the first quarter. He may not return.

Terrible loss by Miami. The defense collapsed in the last few minutes, but it never should have come to that. They had the ball inside the Titans' 3-yard line 3 times and came away with just six points. Wasting downs on goal-line fade passes hurt.

 

[MJ5150]

They won one ring when he was cheap, one when he was expensive. Now they're barely 75% of the way through the second season of the contract. Let's not go all "First Take" and jump to early conclusions.

It was actually Colin Cowherd I was listening to today. It is a bit early to be proclaiming the KC dynasty/run is over, but it's certainly a valid point that once you pay a guy or two those huge deals, it is time to cut corners. KC has seen those cuts on the offense at WR and both tackle positions. I didn't really think about it until I followed up on some of what he was saying. Since it is a hard cap in the NFL, you can't really argue against the numbers.
When you step back and look at it, yes KC is not that same team anymore once Tyreek Hill and Orlando Brown Jr left. Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce are still the same players, so is Chris Jones. It's not them declining in skills.

-Mike

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I saw the second half last night. No horse in that race, but hats off to the Titans, who punched above their weight and played a good game. They outgained the Fins, brought the heat on D with 5 sacks, and their rookie QB has moxie.

 

[MJ5150]

15 points in four minutes? That has to be frustrating for Miami fans. Welcome to the age of mediocrity in the AFC.

-Mike

 

[Gaolee]

Agree if it’s a rule it should be enforced and players and coaches and all officials should be trained to know it and enforce it.
So far in this season there have been 207 NFL games played and this rule has been enforced 11 times (I said 12 earlier and looked it up) in 2023 and 2 times in 2022.
That’s not in any way consistent with a rule the League intends to enforce or that coaches intend to train around. Teams starting in 1st grade obsessively practice to teach players to not go offsides or false start on counts. Teams practice obsessively about ball control and excess contact in pass plays and every OL knows exactly how many forward steps they are able to take before becoming an ineligible receiver. Every special teams player knows kick-catch rules and kicker contact rules since 1st grade. And now that head injuries have gained the attention they should have always had children through professionals are rigorously coached in proper contact.

Point is you’re right, if it’s a rule it should be enforced equally and consistently. Not arguing that it’s in the modified rule book.

But not including overtime the League has had 12,480 minutes to make that call and someone is right on the non visible neutral line nearly every snap in every game.

So call it or don’t but do not “remember” it’s an important rule on a team’s final possession in a single score game. That’s where the reaction is coming from. The refs didn’t make up the rule. But they did choose to not enforce it until past the 2 minute warning.

Maybe it's that unusual for a receiver to be offsides. I don't know, but that's the other explanation.

 

[Gaolee]

Exactly, they were nearly unbeatable when he was cheap. Now that he's getting paid, the roster adjustments to accommodate that big payday are catching up with KC.

-Mike

There's a reason the Seahawks won their ring while Wilson was on his rookie contract. Even if Wilson gets back to his previous form, which he appears to be doing, I doubt Denver will win a ring until his contract runs out.

 

[Killing Floor]

Maybe it's that unusual for a receiver to be offsides. I don't know, but that's the other explanation.

He was way forward. Wideouts are taught at an early age to look at the line official. You see even college players doing a thumbs up before the snap, that’s what they’re doing, yes/no with the ref.
I don’t have any issue with calling the penalty. Just that in the last 600 games it’s been called only 14 times.

Andy Reid is correct when he said the chief official normally informs each HC beforehand when they plan to implement enforcement of any rule that is either new or not commonly enforced.

 

[gln1955]

He was way forward. Wideouts are taught at an early age to look at the line official. You see even college players doing a thumbs up before the snap, that’s what they’re doing, yes/no with the ref.
I don’t have any issue with calling the penalty. Just that in the last 600 games it’s been called only 14 times.

Andy Reid is correct when he said the chief official normally informs each HC beforehand when they plan to implement enforcement of any rule that is either new or not commonly enforced.

A ref needs to tell a coach he's going to enforce one of the most fundamental rules of football?

 

[Killing Floor]

A ref needs to tell a coach he's going to enforce one of the most fundamental rules of football?

11 flags so far this year. That’s 208 games, that’s over 4,000 snaps.
For comparison there’s been exactly 455 offensive holding penalties this season, 492 false starts (601 last year).
So yes it’s a rule. But point is enforce it or don’t but in the Chiefs Bills game it was obscure and rarely enforced and ultimately decided the outcome.

11 flagged occurrences per year. Watch a game. There’s someone on the imaginary line every snap.
Decent resource.
False Start - 2009 to 2023 - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - Data From 2009-2023

FWIW the neutral zone is nebulous. It’s generally the tip to tip length of a football so just about 12” but that isn’t specific. It’s not exact. And the wideout can be 30+ feet away from the ball. So it’s really just a guess.

Call it every game like holding or PI or facemask or false start and then it’s fair. 11 times in 208 games and that’s not rule enforcement, that’s a surprise.

 

[mrpackerguy]

11 flags so far this year. That’s 208 games, that’s over 4,000 snaps.
For comparison there’s been exactly 455 offensive holding penalties this season, 492 false starts (601 last year).
So yes it’s a rule. But point is enforce it or don’t but in the Chiefs Bills game it was obscure and rarely enforced and ultimately decided the outcome.

11 flagged occurrences per year. Watch a game. There’s someone on the imaginary line every snap.
Decent resource.
False Start - 2009 to 2023 - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - Data From 2009-2023

FWIW the neutral zone is nebulous. It’s generally the tip to tip length of a football so just about 12” but that isn’t specific. It’s not exact. And the wideout can be 30+ feet away from the ball. So it’s really just a guess.

Call it every game like holding or PI or facemask or false start and then it’s fair. 11 times in 208 games and that’s not rule enforcement, that’s a surprise.

it's only a surprise if it's happening all the time and not being called. I suspect lining up offsides is not happening that often. If tripping or illegal cut blocking is also called infrequently, does that mean it's a surprise when called because it's happening all the time and not being called? From the different angles on that play, some showed him lined up over the line, and others seem to show him right on it so who knows? Was not blatant from what I could see, but why even give the refs the chance to call it?

 

[mrpackerguy]

Oh, and damn Packers.

 

[Killing Floor]

it's only a surprise if it's happening all the time and not being called. I suspect lining up offsides is not happening that often. If tripping or illegal cut blocking is also called infrequently, does that mean it's a surprise when called because it's happening all the time and not being called? From the different angles on that play, some showed him lined up over the line, and others seem to show him right on it so who knows? Was not blatant from what I could see, but why even give the refs the chance to call it?

There’s no real hard line. It’s like a strike box in baseball, can vary by the DJ.
In my opinion when I saw the game Toney was over the line. But lots of players lean over. So it’s fine as long as from now on the league calls it.
Otherwise it’s a bad look.

An area defined by the NFL officially as “can be the length of a football”

 

[mrpackerguy]

You're right about the line. It's imaginary. Only TV viewers get the benefit of so called technology which adds the line and which can be wrong. And I always wondered is it feet, helmet, body?

 

[Killing Floor]

You're right about the line. It's imaginary. Only TV viewers get the benefit of so called technology which adds the line and which can be wrong. And I always wondered is it feet, helmet, body?

Toney was in the slot so he wouldn’t be in a low stance like a lineman. So would be his foot. But can be anything. When it’s a D tackle the helmet leaning over where the official can see it over his line to where the center has ball gets called a lot.

 

[Gaolee]

it's only a surprise if it's happening all the time and not being called. I suspect lining up offsides is not happening that often. If tripping or illegal cut blocking is also called infrequently, does that mean it's a surprise when called because it's happening all the time and not being called? From the different angles on that play, some showed him lined up over the line, and others seem to show him right on it so who knows? Was not blatant from what I could see, but why even give the refs the chance to call it?

I have seen illegal formation called because a receiver or tight end was too far back and the ref decided there were not enough bodies on the line of scrimmage. It's a fine line at times.

I hate the call "lining up in the neutral zone" or "neutral zone infraction." Call it offsides. That's what it is.

 

[MJ5150]

Thank you Ben. Maybe the Rooney's will listen to him:
Big Ben says Steelers tradition might be done.

-Mike

 

[MJ5150]

That's rough when a defensive minded coach gives up 63 to a team that didn't even score a point last week.
By the way, Easton Stick? Who?
I watch lots of college football and I have never heard that name before I saw it in the ESPN website game recap.

-Mike