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NFL Off Season

#201
Sundogue said:
Name one QB who would have done better than Favre on GB's injured team last year.

Done? Certainly not physically. It's only a matter of how much longer he wants to play.

I love how people who don't know sh*t about the situation have such a strong opinion on it.
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Personally, I think Favre is definitely overrated right now. He'll make throws that Alex Smith will make, and when Smith does it, it's horrible, bad rookie mistakes, but when Favre does it, he's "just having fun and letting loose." Announcers and the media don't look at him accurately. I think he had fine numbers the year before last, but his playoff performance was just atrocious, just really really bad.

I like Favre. I think his energy and attitude is great for the game, but I don't think he's the QB any more that many make him out to be.

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Free agency has really shaken up some teams. Much moreso than last year. The signings/trade of Brees and Culpepper are two major factors by themselves. This will totally change the AFC East and NFC South. I still think Brees was better off in Miami.
 
#202
So, basically...even though Favre hasn't lost any arm strength, and actually has more mobility than he's had in years...and he's got way more experience than any other QB in the league, he's washed up?

I guess last year had nothing to do with throwing to inexperienced arena league recievers that didn't know what a route was if they were paperboys?

Give me a break. No one can win on their own...but had he not played the way Favre plays we wouldn't have even won 4 games, or been so close in any of the others.

Last year was an abberation...and anyone outside of those who closely follow Green Bay football in particular doesn't have a clue...and that goes for the pundits...the so-called experts who don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground, but get paid to write like they do.
 
#203
Sundogue said:
Name one QB who would have done better than Favre on GB's injured team last year.

Done? Certainly not physically. It's only a matter of how much longer he wants to play.

I love how people who don't know sh*t about the situation have such a strong opinion on it.
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And who are you, Brett's doctor, Ted Thompson? You don't know any more about Brett Favre than I do. I'm a football fan just like you are. Maybe you live in Green Bay? Is there some secret information about Brett Favre that only people in GB know about? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Who could have played better than Favre last year as the GB QB? Oh, I can come up with a handful of QB's that are better than him on any team in the NFL. He had a QB rating of 71 last year.

The man is done. Are you going to honestly tell me he is the same player he was five or ten years ago? Come on. It's not like I am making this stuff up. Brett himself is the guy saying it. In his prime, he was the best QB in the league. He isn't anymore. People get old, and their skills diminish. It happens. The people who hang on to the glory of 10 years ago, and think it can magically come back all of the sudden are the ones you should be worried about. Not me. :D

Besides....do you want to watch the once dominating Brett Favre stumble to another 4-12 season? I don't either.

-Mike
 
#204
MJ5150 said:
And who are you, Brett's doctor, Ted Thompson? You don't know any more about Brett Favre than I do. I'm a football fan just like you are. Maybe you live in Green Bay? Is there some secret information about Brett Favre that only people in GB know about? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Who could have played better than Favre last year as the GB QB? Oh, I can come up with a handful of QB's that are better than him on any team in the NFL. He had a QB rating of 71 last year.

The man is done. Are you going to honestly tell me he is the same player he was five or ten years ago? Come on. It's not like I am making this stuff up. Brett himself is the guy saying it. In his prime, he was the best QB in the league. He isn't anymore. People get old, and their skills diminish. It happens. The people who hang on to the glory of 10 years ago, and think it can magically come back all of the sudden are the ones you should be worried about. Not me. :D

Besides....do you want to watch the once dominating Brett Favre stumble to another 4-12 season? I don't either.

-Mike
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+1! Besides, you guys got over Hourning, you'll get over Favre. As of now, he's hurting the team. He refuses to help the incoming QB, he refuses to be part of a rebuilding team, just retire already. Who in the hell wants to watch him stink it up while the announcers slurp him next year? As for the "arena league" receivers, I don't recall them throwing into triple coverage last year. I don't recall them doing a lateral to an imaginary player. I don't recall them lofting a shuttle pass 10 feet over the receiver's head, only to land softly into a linebacker's arms :rollno: If you think he's physically better now than he was in the 90's............:eyebrow:
 
#207
Kibuddy said:
So Keyshawn signed to a four-year deal with Carolina. They're going to be a team to watch out for this year.
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I missed that story. Yeah, that is a great move for the Panthers. Keyshawn did well last year playing with Glenn as the deep threat speed burner. He's got that with Smith in Carolina. Delhomme is going to have some fun next year.

-Mike
 
#208
Woodchuck said:
+1! Besides, you guys got over Hourning, you'll get over Favre. As of now, he's hurting the team. He refuses to help the incoming QB, he refuses to be part of a rebuilding team, just retire already. Who in the hell wants to watch him stink it up while the announcers slurp him next year? As for the "arena league" receivers, I don't recall them throwing into triple coverage last year. I don't recall them doing a lateral to an imaginary player. I don't recall them lofting a shuttle pass 10 feet over the receiver's head, only to land softly into a linebacker's arms :rollno: If you think he's physically better now than he was in the 90's............:eyebrow:
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No, I don't live in Green Bay...but close. I know that on many passes that looked like Favre threw badly, actually only had that appearance because the stupid recievers were cutting routes short, or running completely wrong routes...(and yes, on some occassions I do get some inside info...;) ).

It's not that Favre hasn't had his share of stupid moments in his career...but what the hell are you smoking to think that Favre is supposed to run routes and catch his own passes?

Look at his stats from the prior year when he had healthy players around him. Is he declining? Sure...all athletes do. But he can still play QB better than most of the shmucks out there that are starters.

You still haven't named a single QB that would have done better than Favre with what he had to work with...and you're delusional if you think there were. I'd have loved to see what Manning or Brady would have done with those castoffs Green Bay was forced to play. :D

I'm not looking at Favre with rose colored glasses...but some things are just too obvious. :rollno:
 
#209
Sundogue said:
You still haven't named a single QB that would have done better than Favre with what he had to work with...and you're delusional if you think there were. I'd have loved to see what Manning or Brady would have done with those castoffs Green Bay was forced to play. :D
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Yep, I'll take Manning, Brady, Trent Green, Carson Palmer, or Matt Hasselbeck. Even Culpepper if he wasn't injured.

-Mike
 
#210
MJ5150 said:
Yep, I'll take Manning, Brady, Trent Green, Carson Palmer, or Matt Hasselbeck. Even Culpepper if he wasn't injured.

-Mike
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Maybe Manning. Maybe Brady. Certainly not the rest. You can't ignore the fact tha ANTONIO CHATMAN, a mediocre kick returner of smurfish proportions, was the #2 reciever most of last year. Donald Driver was the only legitimate WR on the roster by the end of the year. Brett certainly WAS guilty of throwing it up for grabs during the season though, more so than he ever has. He was used to having Javon Walker on the field, who 9 times out of 10, would come down with those. With Javon gone, it wasn't a good thing.
 
#211
cheezewiz said:
Maybe Manning. Maybe Brady. Certainly not the rest. You can't ignore the fact tha ANTONIO CHATMAN, a mediocre kick returner of smurfish proportions, was the #2 reciever most of last year. Donald Driver was the only legitimate WR on the roster by the end of the year. Brett certainly WAS guilty of throwing it up for grabs during the season though, more so than he ever has. He was used to having Javon Walker on the field, who 9 times out of 10, would come down with those. With Javon gone, it wasn't a good thing.
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With Manning or Brady, the Packers would have still been 4-12...if that.

When no one is getting open and you still have to complete a pass, what are you going to do? The same thing the Packers did for 30 years? By that I mean, 3 downs and punt.

I'd still take my chances with Favre under center...because without him, they had NO chance to win.

Personally, I'd love to have him back with a supporting cast. But if I were him I'd call it quits...not because he can't do it anymore, but because he has no one around him any more to compete.
 
#212
Sundogue said:
With Manning or Brady, the Packers would have still been 4-12...if that.

When no one is getting open and you still have to complete a pass, what are you going to do? The same thing the Packers did for 30 years? By that I mean, 3 downs and punt.

I'd still take my chances with Favre under center...because without him, they had NO chance to win.

Personally, I'd love to have him back with a supporting cast. But if I were him I'd call it quits...not because he can't do it anymore, but because he has no one around him any more to compete.
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Agreed 100 percent.
 
#213
Okay, I'll bite...

Of course, I'm biased, but I don't think you can say that Favre has no business playing pro ball. The last two seasons that the Packers made the playoffs were almost purely Brett Favre playing at a level that just can't be quantified by statistics... did they go deep in the playoffs? No. But they made it there with no other marquee names than Ahman Green and a pretty inconsistent defense overall. I mean, Favre made a middling coach like Mike Sherman look good (even though the Pack had two 12-4 seasons in his reign, he couldn't make it to the SB, I think that the fault for consistently poor playoffs performance falls mostly on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but that's just me).

As for really good QBs playing with depleted staff, look at the year McNabb had before the injury. I think McNabb's a top QB, but with everything that happened to the Eagles, he looked like he didn't know what end was up. Certainly, Philly had some extreme circumstances, but I'm just likening adversity to adversity in a general sense.

Think of what Elway was able to do when he was finally surrounded by a great team in his twilight years. Sure, he wasn't The Man With the Golden Arm any more... but with his experience at the helm of a team that talented and well coached... man, that Broncos team was tough to beat (and we Packer fans felt the worst of it).

I won't make any apologies for sticking up for Favre... are his best years behind him? Sure. But could he play pro ball for a couple more years and play great ball? If his heart's into it, definitely. Packer fans are extremely loyal, but I wouldn't say to a fault... it's what makes the organization what it is and we'll deal with some years of adversity and losing records to hold onto what's important about being a publicly owned, small market team with a history and tradition that is unrivaled. Just my two cents...
 
#214
It looks to me like you Favre backers are insinuating that the Packer WR's make Favre better than he is. All I keep hearing from you guys is "if he had better WR's", "Javon Walker can make those catches", "if the WR knew how to run patterns", and so on.

You've got other QB's in the league that can't wait until training camp starts. What's Favre's attitude? "Oh, I'll see how I feel in training camp and then decide if I want to play". With that attitude, he needs to go.

-Mike
 
#216
MJ5150 said:
It looks to me like you Favre backers are insinuating that the Packer WR's make Favre better than he is. All I keep hearing from you guys is "if he had better WR's", "Javon Walker can make those catches", "if the WR knew how to run patterns", and so on.

You've got other QB's in the league that can't wait until training camp starts. What's Favre's attitude? "Oh, I'll see how I feel in training camp and then decide if I want to play". With that attitude, he needs to go.

-Mike
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You guys are questioning Favre's dedication to his team? Are you serious? :rollno:

Ummm...he's kind of earned that, don't you think? Name me one QB in the league who's played as long (every single frickin' game I might add...even when injured).

As far as I'm concerned he epitomizes what football should be about. I think that's where you guys lose sight of what he means. It ain't all about statistics.

Where were you guys when Favre played his first game for the Pack? I was there watching the Hall of Fame story unfold...and every single game since.

I've seen him get walloped by Sapp...only to have him get up and grab Sapp's facemask and fight with him...right in front of Holmgren (and right in front of my 50 yardline, front row seat at Lambeau) and then on the next play put a dagger in Tampa's heart with a TD pass in the playoffs. I've seen him come out with his ankle heavily taped and just totally destroy the Bears. I've seen him get clobbered by a Pittsburgh linebacker where he was spitting up blood and then still killed them with a TD on the nexy play. I've seen him get knocked almost unconcious only to come back in on the next play and throw a TD. I watched him come out and have a career game the day after his father died.

He's taken pay cuts to help sign, or keep other players. What he's meant to the Packers isn't measured by statistics my friends. I could go on and on, as the list is VERY long as to how dedicated he is.

If he wants to wait until training camp...fine by me. He deserves that much respect. If it weren't for him, we'd have had 40+ years of losing football here in Wisconsin.

Do I worship him? Hardly (though it may seem like it to those of you on the outside). I've been watching the Packers since I was a little kid and they won the first two Super Bowls. Hornung, Starr, Nitschke? They don't even compare to Favre. Does that put it in perspective for you? Favre saved this franchise and their isn't going to be another like him (and not just for the Pack...but all of football) for a very long time.

Let me ask you guys a question. If Manning, or Brady, or any QB of your favorite team decided to retire, how would you feel? Then compare what they've meant to your team versus what Favre has meant to the Packers and even the NFL as a whole over the time period he's played.

You guys really don't get it. You all sound like fantasy league fans.
 
#219
Sundogue said:
Ugh.

We're not talking about someone like a Terrell Owens here.

Favre deserves respect and all the time he needs to decide what to do. That's the least the Packers organization can do for him.
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If he truly respected the organization he would be proactive in training his replacement. I respect the man and he has survived better than most would, but regardless, the sun will set on his career in the NFL and he should be worried about helping continue the Packer francise and not his boosting his "ironman" legacy.
 
#220
Sundogue said:
Ummm...he's kind of earned that, don't you think?

Where were you guys when Favre played his first game for the Pack? I was there watching the Hall of Fame story unfold...and every single game since.

You guys really don't get it. You all sound like fantasy league fans.
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OK, you need to stop dude. This is what really gets me about a lot of Green Bay fans. You guys act like you are the only ones who "get" football. Like there is some special understanding of the game you have that no other NFL fans have. Guess what? The NFL is available all over the country. I've watched plenty of Green Bay games. I've seen all of the Favre glory moments just like you have. If not in the course of a game, then definitely on ESPN.

I remember watching Brett Favre play college football. Yeah, that is how big of a football fan I am.

I grew up near Pittsburgh. They play football there too in case you didn't know. I went to Penn State and Pittsburgh Steeler football games my whole life. It was freezing cold at some of those games just like it gets at Lambeau. I played college football. I love football, I breathe football during the season. I watch any NFL game I can. Dude, you aren't the only one who gets it. So stop.

Favre has been THE man for years.....years. I would never question his skills or dedication during that time. Does that earn him the right to be non-committal to his team? NOPE. Am I going to question his dedeication right now? SUre am, even Favre is.

Yes, I know how it feels when your favorite player, on your favorite team retires. I'll spare you the long list of Steeler greats who have broken my heart, with the most recent being Bettis.

-Mike
 

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