Double Bass NS Design WAV4 megathread part I

[mccartneyman]

I've used the WAV with the supplied stand steadily for the past month on a church gig and have had no problems with the stand at all. Maybe the force I play with doesn't match that of others,but I've had no problems with wiggling, I can see that overtightening of the nut that adjusts height might lead to breakage, but -- again -- I don't tighten it overmuch after reading the reports here. I love the bass, but I'm still having problems with the supplied G string sounding "wimpy" compared to the other three strings. I've been experimenting with EQ, but I'm still interested if anyone else has this observation.

 

[adje]

I've had the WAV for a couple of weeks now, in the amberburst finish. I tried out the blue and amber versions side by side, and preferred the playability and sound of the amber one - lucky for me, as the metallic blue see-through really didn't do it for me.

Superficial comments first ... The dark recesses of the peghead are finished poorly, and there are some rough filing marks on the inside (see attached picture) - but hey, check out the price tag! The stripey maple is pleasant to look at. The ebony fingerboard looks pretty solid, not quite pitch black, just some small patches that have light streaks, and no knots anywhere on the surface.

The action was a little low, and in higher positions the strings were choking on the end of the fingerboard. (Same on both WAVs I tried out.) I wanted to straighten out the neck with the trussrod - but for that you need a 3/16" allen key, which was not included in the package (remember the price tag). Living in a metric society it's very difficult to find inch-sized tools. We have a 5 mm driver that is just too small, and a 6 that is just too big.

For the time being, I raised the bridge. Here I discovered that the backplate is an area where they should really consider improving things. The back plate on the WAV is a single metal plate that is screwed into the body, with two small openings for adjusting the bridge height, and four larger openings for hooking up true DB strings. With a screwdriver, I could just reach the bridge height adjustment screws, which were not in line with the openings in the back plate. I nearly removed the backplate, until it dawned on me that you shouldn't unscrew the back plate too often if you ever want to use real DB strings ...

With the bridge raised a little, the strings no longer choke and the action is still comfortable. The back of the neck is huge compared to a BG, but you soon adjust. The back of the neck is satinized for the most part - it looks a bit odd with the dark finish but the satin feel is very nice. As a side-effect, you absolutely fly when you take up a teeny-weeny bass guitar again ...

This is a big log of wood, so there is plenty of sustain and there are hints of the deep DB sound, with some sweet spots on the A and D. However, the E string seems to lack a bit of fundamental, and the G string is a bit nasal. I'm pretty sure/hoping/guessing that these are weaknesses of the standard strings.

When plucking strings, only the "down" position (pizz) of the polarity switch gives you a decent sound. In the "up" position (arco) I can try all sorts of ways of plucking the string - sideways or from the top, index and middle finger joined or stacked, striking down or across - but it's no use, you get a nice acoustic attack and a bit of "air", but little to no sustain - and you can forget about using the G string. Perhaps this setting works for bowing but it appears to be useless for plucking. The pizz position is more BG-like in nature, but you can definitely tell it's not a BG. On the upmarket models, they've replaced the pizz/arco toggle with a blend control, which sounds interesting - but those models have a pre-amp, and the WAV is passive.

The tone control is interesting. You need to roll-off the highs, because this EUB sounds bright beyond reason, but the tone stays useful all the way to the lowest setting. Perhaps in a band setting you might turn it up over one third. But even then ... on my Workingman's 12, I switch off the tweeter completely and set the treble control at 9 o'clock, and you have more than enough treble. I'm hoping to try out darker sounding DB strings soon.

So far, I'm very happy with the instrument. The tripod stand is holding up fine in my living room, with the bass at a jaunty angle - the E is just leaning over as on a full-bodied DB - but I have no way of telling what life on the road might be (stand-wise). The bass does dance a little on the stand as I play, but it feels perfectly natural.

 

[endorka]

I've had the WAV for a couple of weeks now,

It's great to hear another person's experiences of this instrument, I've had mine for nearly 8 weeks now but have gigged it extensively during that time.

As a side-effect, you absolutely fly when you take up a teeny-weeny bass guitar again ...

Don't you just! Even though my bass guitar is a sixer, when I used it on a gig the other day it felt like playing a guitar or something! I was flying all over the place. I've never played the bass guitar as well as that in my life!

This is a big log of wood, so there is plenty of sustain and there are hints of the deep DB sound, with some sweet spots on the A and D. However, the E string seems to lack a bit of fundamental, and the G string is a bit nasal. I'm pretty sure/hoping/guessing that these are weaknesses of the standard strings.

I've replaced the standard strings with Pirastro Flexocore ones, and there does seem to be a big difference. Certainly, I don't notice the problems you mention, all the strings sound good.

When plucking strings, only the "down" position (pizz) of the polarity switch gives you a decent sound. In the "up" position (arco) I can try all sorts of ways of plucking the string - sideways or from the top, index and middle finger joined or stacked, striking down or across - but it's no use, you get a nice acoustic attack and a bit of "air", but little to no sustain - and you can forget about using the G string. Perhaps this setting works for bowing but it appears to be useless for plucking.

In the first few weeks of using the instrument I would have agreed with you, but I persisted with pizz in the arco position because other people were saying that it sounded more like a double bass that way. To me, it sounded like I was getting too much of a "thock" kindof tone from it, but people in the audience and other musicians were saying it sounded great. Since then, I've heard other people play the instrument pizz style in arco mode, and it does indeed sound good. I think part of the confusion is that the sound up close to the amp is different from the sound in the audience, and with your ear so close to the fingerboard, you may actually be hearing something from there too, so you are not hearing the "true" sound.

I have no idea how much prior experience you have on double bass - I had none - but as my experience of playing pizz DB style improved, so did the tone I was able to get. Persistence has really paid off.

The tone control is interesting. You need to roll-off the highs, because this EUB sounds bright beyond reason, but the tone stays useful all the way to the lowest setting. Perhaps in a band setting you might turn it up over one third.

For pizz style in arco mode, I have both tone and volume up full. My amp has a few notches of bass added, and a bit of mid around 550 Hz removed - this helps reduce the "thock" I mentioned previously.

For arco (in arco mode I turn the volume down to about half - this removes some high frequency components from the sound - and also turn the tone to about 1/4. This seems to get a tone similar to that of a real DB when bowed.

Jennifer

 

[adje]

Hi Jennifer, thanks for your input. I had no proper DB experience before this, just 30 years of 4 string BG.

I'll certainly try to work on my pizz with the switch in arco mode (somebody turn off the sound track to Space Balls, please) - perhaps some proper strings will help.

 

[endorka]

I'll certainly try to work on my pizz with the switch in arco mode (somebody turn off the sound track to Space Balls, please) - perhaps some proper strings will help.

I always find that when I start using a new instrument, or amp, or even strings, no matter how much experience I acquire, there is always a non-negotiable adjustment time. I'm beginning to wonder if a large proportion of this is actually your ear adjusting to the new sound, rather than the other way round.

Jennifer

 

[mccartneyman]

I'm glad that someone else thinks the stock WAV G string is "nasal." Maybe I'll try a different brand strings. I wish they didn't cost so much though. Has anyone tried Thomastiks on a WAV? My experience with setup from the factory sounds remarkably similar as well -- had to raise the treble side of the bridge bacause the D & G (especially the G) were bottoming out above the octave. I'm running mine direct with the K & K Pure Preamp, into side two of a Radial Bassbone. Plenty of bottom, plenty of sustain and, the more I play it, a better "mwah." I don't understand why the arco setting so much louder than the pizz. I experimented running the WAV through a EB volume pedal so I could more accurately control the bowed volume, but I discovered that the pedal robbed me of a lot of bottom end. So, when bowing, I turn the volume back by at least half, and the tone all the way to bass. For Pizz, I run the volume wide open and the tone about halfway. I have not yet gigged it through an amp. Nice bass. Fun to play. And yes -- after a month on the WAV, my Lakland 55-94 felt like it had a like a banjo neck.

 

[adje]

When playing solo, at low volume, I notice that much of the "thock" in arco mode seems to be interference between the acoustic sound coming off the instrument, and the sound coming from the amp. If I lean a little further away from the instrument, the thock is less pronounced. Given our somewhat crowded living room, I'm standing right next to the WM12, which might also account for part of this.

I have to agree that arc mode comes closer to the classic DB sound (and for some reason, the treble is also much more manageable than in pizz mode) so I'll just have to put in more woodshedding ... and probably spend a hundred bucks on decent strings. I want to avoid the buzzy types (Spirocores) and think of getting some TI Superflexibles.

mccartneyman - in string instruments, the volume corresponds one-on-one to the amplitude of the vibration of the string. When playing pizz, the amplitude drops immediately after you pluck. When bowing, you sustain the initial amplitude - so it can get LOUD.

Negotiable adjustment time - do they offer time-share on that too?

 

[bluegrassboy]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on ordering one of these. The string discussion has made me wonder if this wouldn't be an ideal situation for Obligatos. All hail Bob?? Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Bob Gollihur]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on ordering one of these. The string discussion has made me wonder if this wouldn't be an ideal situation for Obligatos. All hail Bob?? Do you have any suggestions?

I coincidentally put a set of Obligatos on a WAV4 I shipped last week. I didn't plug it in afterwards, but played it with the new strings for a bit, and I liked the feel and more URB-like acoustic sound very much.

 

[cairomike]

I want to avoid the buzzy types (Spirocores) and think of getting some TI Superflexibles.

A word of warning I bought some TI Superflexible 3/4 length and found that only the G string fitted and there was no way to make any of the other strings fit . Maybe 4/4 Superflexibles would fit, but I haven't tried them. I would like to try new strings but after that experience I am reluctant to shell out any more cash for fear of wasting it yet again. As I suggested in an earlier post, surely it would be possible for someone in the business to measure a few string types and let us know which fit and which don't. I understand Jennifer has successfully fitted Pirastro Flexocores, I might go that route.

 

[adje]

A word of warning I bought some TI Superflexible 3/4 length and found that only the G string fitted and there was no way to make any of the other strings fit . Maybe 4/4 Superflexibles would fit, but I haven't tried them. I would like to try new strings but after that experience I am reluctant to shell out any more cash for fear of wasting it yet again. As I suggested in an earlier post, surely it would be possible for someone in the business to measure a few string types and let us know which fit and which don't. I understand Jennifer has successfully fitted Pirastro Flexocores, I might go that route.

Timely warning!

Any indication what type of sound to expect from Flexocores? And are we talking about 92 or Original here - hey, I can't remember EVERYTHING I read.

 

[bluegrassboy]

OK, I'm convinced. Placed my order this afternoon w/ Bob Gollihur and it has already been shipped. (Thanks, Bob!) I'm pumped! I also ordered a set of Obligatos for it, so I'll report on how they sound. I like Obligatos on my Englehardt, so I'm hopeful they'll help provide an acoustic URB sound. Thanks to everyone on this forum and thread for their insight and for sharing their experiences..

 

[adje]

All hail Bob ... we need your expertise!

You recommended 3/4 length for the WAV, and you must have installed a couple of different types of string already. Which makes and types (Obligato, ...) and were they all 3/4?

Just so us EUB newbies don't get lost in the woods ...

Thanks!

 

[Bob Gollihur]

All hail Bob ... we need your expertise!

You recommended 3/4 length for the WAV, and you must have installed a couple of different types of string already. Which makes and types (Obligato, ...) and were they all 3/4?

Just so us EUB newbies don't get lost in the woods ...

Thanks!

I have only installed Obligatos, it is more typical for buyers to change strings themselves when they receive the instrument.

I can tell you that the choice can be restricted by the size of the string thread at the headstock end. Like others, NSD uses small bass-guitar style tuners that have a small string insert as well as a narrow slot. One buyer originally wanted Eurosonics; their lead was too thick to be successfully mounted on the WAV.

 

[adje]

Bob,

Excellent point about string thread at the headstock end!

Not sure if you read cairomike's comments on the 3/4 Superflexibles being too short. If you know these strings, would you say that this is typical for Superflexibles, and the 4/4 version would probably fit better?

 

[adje]

To bring back some earlier posts:

I remember reading something similar elsewhere and it transpires that although the WAV is a 3/4 Scale, you actually need 4/4 length when ordering Thomastik strings.

Bad news. TI Superflexible 3/4 Orchestra strings DON'T fit. I started restringing with the G and it was fine, then came to the D and it's way too short when strung through the holes in the rear plate, the binding at the nut extends to around the E position, and they are way to long when strung through the normal holes, the end binding extends past the bridge by more than an inch or so. I didn't try the A and E but they also look too short. £70 down the drain, not happy

You can remove several inches of the silk at the ball-end without any problem.
I have to do it on most TI strings because the silk thread is so long.
Take a sharp knife, and cut some silk while holding the blade flat against the string, so you don't harm the metal itself.

Thanks for your suggestion Francois. The trouble is if I do that although the string will sit properly on the bridge, the main body of the string then winds around the machine head rather than the binding. What's really needed are holes in the back plate about 80mm lower. What we all need is some guidance as to which 'standard' strings fit the NS basses, some one in the 'business' must be able to do the measurements, it's not rocket science.

Question to Bob: I take it that the Obligatos were 3/4 size?

Question to all: has anyone successfully installed Thomastik strings on a WAV? And if so, please provide the details!

 

[adje]

And I found this contribution from Low Song:

Welcome, frede! Although I'm new to the EUB world as well, I can give you my impressions of a string change. I had researched the forums (much as you have) prior to ordering the WAV4 (from Bob) and had opted to order a more "traditional" set of strings to swap out for the originals. I did this in large part to hopefully optimize the arco sound (figure I should learn both, as all the URB forums emphasize arco as the way to hone intonation). Anyway here's my 2c:

What: changed the native WAV4 strings for TI Belcantos

Thoughts: The most dramatic difference seemed to be in the E/A strings. The amount of sustain and brightness dropped off considerably. To my (admittedly less experienced) ear, this sounded more URBish. The D/G strings also showed less sustain, but the notes still ring through. Perhaps it's just my playing, but I also noted less buzz in the D/G on the "pizz" setting with the Belcantos. I did try arco playing with each set, but my lack of experience there makes it impossible to offer a reasonable comparison. Perhaps I'll post more as I get more time on the "stick".
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[mzh000]

Question to all: has anyone successfully installed Thomastik strings on a WAV? And if so, please provide the details!

I have installed TI Belcanto and Spiro strings on an NS Design a CR4M, which should have the same dimensions as the WAV (more or less). The Belcanto strings were 3/4 scale. The Spiro strings were 4/4. Both types fit without problems (by sheer luck), but I can see why 3/4 scale Spiro would not fit. There is less than an inch from the silk to the nut on them. Unlike the Spiros, I guess TI made the Belcanto more widely useable, since I have only seen 3/4 Belcanto strings on sale (the BC6x series).

I use Belcanto for the G and D (more growl and bottom end), Spiros for A and E (less nasal). YMMV.

 

[adje]

mzh000,

Thanks for the details!

I'll start a list of strings that fit:
* TI Spirocore 4/4
* TI Belcanto 3/4

The backside of the WAV is different - there's a single metal plate with keyholes for the ball ends in W formation - see attachment. You would hope they kept the anchor points at about the same distance from the bottom, but who knows ...

 

[cairomike]

mzh000,

Thanks for the details!

I'll start a list of strings that fit:
* TI Spirocore 4/4
* TI Belcanto 3/4

The backside of the WAV is different - there's a single metal plate with keyholes for the ball ends in W formation - see attachment. You would hope they kept the anchor points at about the same distance from the bottom, but who knows ...

Well done for taking the initiative. I just hope the anchor points are the same as the CR4M and you don't get flack if they aren't.

There must be a dealer out there who could check a few popular sets to see if they fit, as I said before it ain't rocket science, a length of string and a marker pen would do the job.