Yeah, I get what you're saying here, but IMHO the bass has great aesthetics. If it had a fancy top on it, I'm not sure I'd necessarily classify it as better looking... just different.
Anyway, enjoy... as I know you will.
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Anyway, enjoy... as I know you will.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,233
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- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Yeah, I get what you're saying here, but IMHO the bass has great aesthetics. If it had a fancy top on it, I'm not sure I'd necessarily classify it as better looking... just different.
Anyway, enjoy... as I know you will.
I think it does too! I just can see how some people would think it wasn't "classically" good looking.
And yes, I do believe I will. Thank you.
Thanks!
I love all the interest in the Vinny's (4,5,6)...
Question:
I've played a Vinny model once, and the one thing that was different about them that I immediately noticed was the looser string tension compared to other Zon models...why is that? and can that be changed to a more normal string tension if custom ordered? or is that a build feature consistant with that model?...Manring's VB4 looks to me like it has the same type of tension as well.
that Vinny 6er fretless that just got built looks killer, and sounds killer i'm sure, but I couldn't play it with a spongy string tension....any help here.
thanks
Question:
I've played a Vinny model once, and the one thing that was different about them that I immediately noticed was the looser string tension compared to other Zon models...why is that? and can that be changed to a more normal string tension if custom ordered? or is that a build feature consistant with that model?...Manring's VB4 looks to me like it has the same type of tension as well.
that Vinny 6er fretless that just got built looks killer, and sounds killer i'm sure, but I couldn't play it with a spongy string tension....any help here.
thanks
Might be due to the headless design. My Ex Factor was this way also.
The tension just takes some getting use to. You can actually do more with it if you work with the tension(bends etc). I like it actually.
It took some time
Black hardware
Blackwood top and matching ramp
delicious
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Sweet, I chose a nice redwood top, the Buckeye was well...sort of rotten...not much to the grain and a lot of filling would be required.
I chose a nicer redwood blackened burl.
I should get the Hyper back this month. I had Joe remove the old tuners and adjust them out for the Hipshot deturners (they need a bit more space, so the holes need changed and repositioned), got rid of those dang off set set fret lines (Joe tried in vain to talk the original buyer out of this option) and fixed a few other blemishes.
Tonally, unlike anything else.
Really a sweet bass on many levels.
Vinny will be about 6 months behind this one.
Had and sold a Vinny here about 2-3 months ago. Likely should have just kept it.
I like the single coils, sound good and I do not trip over them as much with my clumpsy right hand.
Traditional thought would say that the tension does not change. Perceived tension (stiffness) might, but then again that should increase, not decrease, due to less string being available to stretch, beyond the nut and bridge.
In any case, I'll be looking out for this on my Zon and will report in if i feel this way. I'm fairly sensitive towards string tension also, preferring high tension strings.
This is correct. The string tension on a vinny will be the same as on any other bass with the same scale length and gauge of string.
Yes...in theory this works, but remeber your dealing with a headless instrument with less overall string length from one end to the other...this small difference makes a huge difference if string tension is critical to you style of play. I noticed if your a slapper it actually makes it easier to play, and its fun, but if your into quick fingerstyle jaco like runs this design might not work for you. I'm not saying its bad, just be aware of the performance/response of a design like this.
I've seen this debated before, but never resolved with any factual data... the whole thing about the string length past each fulcrum point mattering regarding what tension a string has to be to vibrate the right way between the fulcrum points (the nut and the saddles).
I still think this is just a perception thing, but I always welcome education. Do you know of some solid information that supports this assertion?
Hi Vic,
I'm just going by how the instrument "Feels" in my hands, and it is more than just a "little" difference to me. Don't get me wrong here, I love my own Zon and think they are the best performing instruments on the planet. check out some of Manrings VB4 vids on youtube, the string bending capabilities are amazing, but I believe its a different animal compared to a headed bass, and when I tried out one it just comfirmed that for me. I was bummed about it too, because I love the design and compactness of this model, but for me and my style of play its too spongy. the physics behind this i'm sure are out there... logic would say you cant have a string that much (shorter/and or longer) and not have some perceptible difference in string tension. Maybe putting some heavy guage strings on this model would help...again, this is nuanced point, but it was enough for me Not to buy this model, not because of the awesome quality of Zon basses, but maybe the performance strengths/weakness of the "headless" design.
Ok, fair enough. Maybe there is something to it, but to at least nail one thing down... have you actually back to back played a Sonus 5 and a VB5 with the same string sets on them?
If not and you still feel as you do, that's cool, I'm just trying to learn something here.
Also, as maybe a separate question, what type and gauge of strings do you use on the VB?
There really isn't much academic analysis regarding this. This is the explanation i regularly use, good enough for me:
(Static) tension is based on string length, linear mass, and pitch, all of which do not change in a bass. How "tight" a string feels, however, has an element of (dynamic) tension, ie. how much the string gives when it is pulled.
Since some string can pass over the bridge and nut when the string is plucked, the more string that passes over the bridge and nut, the spongier the feel. If there is a lot of string beyond the nut and bridge, as in classically headed designs, then the strings might feel more flexible, as that extra string also can stretch in response to the added tension when plucking. Headless designs - at least those clamped near the mounting points - would feel far stiffer.
You must realise that Manring uses piccolo strings on most of his basses - 0.52 0.42 0.32 0.22 is a gauge I've heard him use, and those gauges would be ridiculously easy to bend. I certainly wouldn't use Manring's experience on Vinnies as typical of headless basses.
I have a Sonus TJ that I play ALL the time, infact, I've sold just about everything else (except my 62' Fender Jazz, and my Zon Hyperbass 6 string-no detuners-) because I've fallen for this Zon model. I was seriously going to buy Plantbrains VB4 at one point (great guy btw) and when I played the bass, I knew in seconds that it was the wrong feel for me, mainly because of the tension issue. So, I did play my Zon (TJ) before playing his Zon (VB) and felt it immediatley, bummed too because I came prepared with cash to buy that instrument. It would be interesting to A/B the same string gauges with the different models. Maybe to the weekend warrior/hobbyist they couldn't feel a difference between the two, but I'm practically living with my bass in my hands, so the feel was right up front and center. It makes sense with what MM has in his arsenal, and what specialized purposes he uses each bass for...he does things on one bass that I'm sure he couldn't, or would prefer another bass to accomplish.
This seems to make sense to me... basically, if you pull hard enough, you might actually involve what's past the fulcrum points, which would add to the overall "give" of a string. But I guess if you play with a medium or especially light touch, there's probably no appreciable difference.
The counter-intuitive part is ppal was saying the opposite... that the bass that was headless was spongier feeling, and by a very noticeable margin. This is what seemed odd to me and got my curiosity up.
Ahhh.... the plot thickens... I don't doubt for one minute you felt a difference, but based on what you just posted, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and say since you knew the strings weren't the exact same type, you probably mistakenly attributed the diff to the instrument instead of the strings, and the strings would be my first suspicion at this point.
Bottom line is, it really would be interesting to try both basses back to back with the exact same strings and then judge. I won't have this opportunity, but maybe someone else on the thread would.
No biggie, just noodling.
I think a similar way about my TJ5 Fretless. Loving it so much that even my Wals are losing playing time. Even thinking about selling a couple of them! Blasphemous!
I used to think the Sonus Special 5 I had a while back was the best fretless I'd ever played... then I played a "sorta" TJ5 fretless we got in for review. Oh my gosh, it was even better. I say "sorta" because the body shape was the same, but there were a lot of other diffs between it and a real TJ5 made to Todd's spec.
Phenomenal instrument, and if fretless was my main instrument (it is not by a long shot these days), that bass never woulda' left my hands after the mag was done with it. Never.
Hi Vic,
It would seem at first to be just a string gauge issue, but I use all kinds of string gauges and this is more than that...even Plantbrain agrees with me...
You could ask MM in the "Ask a Pro" section of Talkbass, I'm curious to see what he would say.
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