HAHA! that has to be the umpteenth time I've seen that link posted. I'm thinking mr. maurice may know a little bit more than me so I'm inclined to heed his word. I'd suggest others do the same.
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Okay.......*** Sweetwater said......
- Thread starter GrinningMouth88
- Start date
HAHA! that has to be the umpteenth time I've seen that link posted. I'm thinking mr. maurice may know a little bit more than me so I'm inclined to heed his word. I'd suggest others do the same.
Again, NO SUCH THING AS UNDERPOWERING
The wattage of a cab makes NO difference when pairing with a head. The only time you could get in trouble is if you put WAY too much power into a cabinet, or crank so much bass into a ported cab that you blow through the tuning and crease the cones, etc.There IS an issue with underpowering a tweeter. If you really push an amp to clip, and the tweeter does not have protection circuitry, you could blow the tweeter diaphragm. But a woofer..... nope!
So gain, within reason, IGNORE the power rating of a cab, which again is only a rough approximation of the MAXIMUM power you should apply to the cab and not do damage to the voice coil.
The only reason some of those cabs have such high power ratings is that they have a ton of drivers... simple addition. Most companies use the same 10's and 12's in all configuration. So, if you have a 250 watt maximum power 112, then a 412 will have a maximum power rating of 1000 watts with those same drivers. It really means nothing.
Sorry. I just can't resist these "underpowering" threads. Or the "ground loop" ones either. This thread is goofy and funny, for sure. But it will have to go a long ways in absurdity to catch up to my favorite from a while back, the "My Amp Is Too Loud" thread.
No they won't be run together. My 412 will be run through the 700rbII for gigging, my 210mbe will be an extension to my 210combo for practice and rehearsal.
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
I think I get it. This is super helpful. Power is equally divided by cabs. I'm still limited by the internal 210s in how far I can turn the V knob up, BUT I will still get more volume out of the 410 external cab set up than the 210 external cab setup. I think I got it.
But it still leaves me wondering... how much more volume might I expect from going to the 410 instead of the 210? Any rough estimates? Or is it just a "try it" kind of thing?
Sorry. I just can't resist these "underpowering" threads. Or the "ground loop" ones either. This thread is goofy and funny, for sure. But it will have to go a long ways in absurdity to catch up to my favorite from a while back, the "My Amp Is Too Loud" thread.
Haha! now I must visit this thread. I'm sure we could try to match that absurdity though. I would love to get the sweetwater rep on here to run through his logic with the rest of us but I know he won't.
Sorry. I just can't resist these "underpowering" threads. Or the "ground loop" ones either. This thread is goofy and funny, for sure. But it will have to go a long ways in absurdity to catch up to my favorite from a while back, the "My Amp Is Too Loud" thread.
So your post was a joke? A smiley would have helped clarify that.
That is a difficult question to answer. If you aren't pushing your 2 x 210 rig to its limits, you won't get any more volume. If you are totally running your 2 x 210 to the edge (i.e., so you feel like you are losing low end toward the end of the night when you dig in, which is typically a sign of drivers reaching their mechanical limits), then replacing the 210 with a 410 might give you that smidge more of volume and non compressed low end to really make a difference, and since you wouldn't have to drive the entire rig as hard, the 210 in your combo might not need to be pushed quite s hard.
The old 'rule of thumb' is that you will gain about 3db (that is a lot, since db is a log scale) by doubling the drivers. You would be increasing the drivers by 1/3, so the max volume increase would be a bit less (i.e., going from 4 10's to 6 10's). However, it isn't all about pure db's, but also about not pushing the drivers to their maximum mechanical limits. That is why adding a bit of power to a cab that can take it can make a huge difference in overall open low end and tone, even if the rig doesn't get that much louder in an absolute sense on a db meter.
However, this assumes a 410 by the same manufacturer. If you get a 410 that is deeply voiced and much lower SPL than your 210, you might actuall LOSE volume!
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
I suspect not. It's true they're getting only half the watts, but there are also twice as many OF them, so...
Nope.... again, in general, the 410 and 210 would be about the same volume (i.e., each driver of the 410 getting less power than each driver of the 210, but that less power is going to twice as many drivers.
The issue is again pushing the 210 a lot harder than the 410 (half the drivers), which can be an issue with overall tone (i.e., the 210 farting out and compressing long before the 410 reaches its limits)
And again, this all assumes cabs of the same design by the same manufacturer. Once you get into massively different tuning, SPL, etc., the whole discussion gets blown to hell.
Why? This is not brand specific, and pretty much basic, standard info.
Again, just think of power per driver, not per cab, and you are good to go. And, keep reminding yourself THAT THE POWER RATING OF A CAB IN NO WAY SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT THE POWER A CAB 'NEEDS' TO SOUND GOOD.
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
Totally. My question is this (and sorry to the OP for hijacking this thread!):
I have an MB210 combo and a 210MBE cab. Approximately how much louder can my rig be if I swapped that cab out for the (8Ohm) 410MBE? 10%? 25%?
I guess you are right about that. It's just that I would like to know more about the whole gallien-krueger 210 combo, 410mbe extension discussion. Unless someone whom already has this setup would like to chime in.
The people at GK are good folks. Call them up and talk to them about it. Sometimes, things that make sense or that don't make sense on paper can behave very differently in the real world.
It is never a problem to gather more info, especially to deal with brand specific performance.
One of the most popular rigs in the late 70's was the SWR Redhead 210 combo and the Goliath 410, both 8ohms, and they combined beautifully.
billfitzmaurice
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- Sep 15, 2004
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An 8 ohm 410 will have 3dB more sensitivity than an 8 ohm 210, but since half the available power is going into the 210 of the combo and the 210 is the limiting factor where amp output is concerned the change will be slight, not worth either the cost or the cartage space. It's only worthwhile with a 4 ohm 210, so that you will gain not only added sensitivity but also added power output from the amp compared to the 210. But since you can't drive a 2.7 ohm load it's moot.
Mr. KJung... or any other expert... quick question for you...
I am running a Mesa 8 ohm 600W 4x10 with a Mesa 8 ohm 600W 2x10 and, contrary to the "mismatching guidelines", I seem to be getting great results.
When I had heard about mismatching cabs being bad before, I called up Mesa and asked them... they told me that I was fine because all of their cabs are made to match together.
If I remember the details correctly, they said that the 4x10 contains four speakers rated at 150W a piece, while the 2x10 contains two speakers rated at 300W a piece, so, as far as worrying about mismatching, they are essentially identical as far as the amp is concerned because they are both rated at 8 ohms.
Did they fill me with BS to make me feel better about my purchase, or does this seem like it makes sense to you?
Thanks for your time!!!
I am running a Mesa 8 ohm 600W 4x10 with a Mesa 8 ohm 600W 2x10 and, contrary to the "mismatching guidelines", I seem to be getting great results.
When I had heard about mismatching cabs being bad before, I called up Mesa and asked them... they told me that I was fine because all of their cabs are made to match together.
If I remember the details correctly, they said that the 4x10 contains four speakers rated at 150W a piece, while the 2x10 contains two speakers rated at 300W a piece, so, as far as worrying about mismatching, they are essentially identical as far as the amp is concerned because they are both rated at 8 ohms.
Did they fill me with BS to make me feel better about my purchase, or does this seem like it makes sense to you?
Thanks for your time!!!
