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Old School vs. New School Amplification

#561
I apologize if my comments offended anyone, it was never my intention.
For the sake of community harmony and mutual respect, I'll will gladly abide by the moderator's input.
My comments were never meant to be mean spirited or disrespectful.

Resume Party!
 
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#566
I am afraid I am in the "led sled" camp. I spent a long time on the road recently. Many, many backlines were provided. I used a ton of gear I would never have had the opportunity to use otherwise. Many lightweight amps. Aguilar, Genz, Markbass, GK, etc... To me, they always felt a bit slow. I can't describe it otherwise, and I don't know in the grand scheme whether or not it really mattered, or it was jus somethin I felt. The GK series of micros were my faves overall. In fact, a GK mb200 kicked tail over the few Aggie 750s I used. But, after tryin all these heads, upon my returnin home I needed to buy a new rig. I bought an "old school" Eden. One of the original "micro" amps... The difference in weight? Negligible, to me. I'm 46, I work, I play tons an I can lift 18lbs to sound/feel like I want. For me? MY sound comes first. Not others'. Or, what others tell me. I respect all the opinions here, guys who build amps, sound companies who use amps, et al. They are right. Everythin sounds great if used with knowledge gained from experience. But, for me, it wasn't what the digital amps were missing, it was what my "heavy" amps have. My sound. I can't explain better than that. My sound, mine, comes first. An whether it's my Demeter/crown rig, my SWR SM-900 or my new Eden WT600, I could not find a better sound. For me. 18lbs ain heavy, to me. 35lbs in a rack is not heavy. My sound? Is...
 
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#568
W
The Nameless said:
I am afraid I am in the "led sled" camp. I spent a long time on the road recently. Many, many backlines were provided. I used a ton of gear I would never have had the opportunity to use otherwise. Many lightweight amps. Aguilar, Genz, Markbass, GK, etc... To me, they always felt a bit slow. I can't describe it otherwise, and I don't know in the grand scheme whether or not it really mattered, or it was jus somethin I felt. The GK series of micros were my faves overall. In fact, a GK mb200 kicked tail over the few Aggie 750s I used. But, after tryin all these heads, upon my returnin home I needed to buy a new rig. I bought an "old school" Eden. One of the original "micro" amps... The difference in weight? Negligible, to me. I'm 46, I work, I play tons an I can lift 18lbs to sound/feel like I want. For me? MY sound comes first. Not others'. Or, what others tell me. I respect all the opinions here, guys who build amps, sound companies who use amps, et al. They are right. Everythin sounds great if used with knowledge gained from experience. But, for me, it wasn't what the digital amps were missing, it was what my "heavy" amps have. My sound. I can't explain better than that. My sound, mine, comes first. An whether it's my Demeter/crown rig, my SWR SM-900 or my new Eden WT600, I could not find a better sound. For me. 18lbs ain heavy, to me. 35lbs in a rack is not heavy. My sound? Is...
Click to expand...


I could deal with 18lbs from time to time; it is the big ones, the ones that I associate "led sled" with that would bother me. The full SVT sized stuff. I think I would only use those if it were a provided backline or if I had a road crew. Sadly I have neither and the light stuff still sounds great as well.
What is it about the Eden that you picked it after all the various heads you went through? What kind of music are you playing through it with?
 
#569
middy said:
35 pound rack?!

I hope you have a forklift for that!

:roflmao:
Click to expand...

No... One handed. I am overestimating weight. Eden WT600, anna rack panel loaded with two fans in a military, old school 6sp SKB rack. It is still lighter than my suitcase I travel with. Clothes an such... I weigh 150 at 6ft tall. Skinny. But apparently way strong. Ha! I been playin fer 30+ years. Used to have ACTUALLY heavy rigs. This? To me? Is nuthin. Easy carry. I play up to six nights a week. Usually 3-4. What I'm sayin is, to me, that weight is nothin. Literally. I run an Eden 215 XLT. It is a dolly. I never lift it. Weighs less than a 410, an WAY easier to move, cuz even a "light" cab? I gotta lift, an I'd rather roll a cab than lift one. I'd love to try one of the more expensive lightweight heads. They supposed to be "better". But the law of diminishin returns enters. $2000 fer a head? Or $400 fer a heavier head that sounds better? Or, at LEAST, Equal to? I'll take the deal every time. I work 6 days a week fer a construction warehouse. I don't pay fer a gym. I work out while workin. Heh. My thing is, if 35 lbs too heavy fer a man? I gotta laugh. I don't buy gear just for one feature. I add up all the factors, an pick what's best for me. Weight, in basses or amps, is a feature far down the list of my concerns. Tone must be first. My sound. Not anyone elses. My opinion. Only. But it is mine...
 
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#570
The Nameless said:
I am afraid I am in the "led sled" camp. I spent a long time on the road recently. Many, many backlines were provided. I used a ton of gear I would never have had the opportunity to use otherwise. Many lightweight amps. Aguilar, Genz, Markbass, GK, etc... To me, they always felt a bit slow. I can't describe it otherwise, and I don't know in the grand scheme whether or not it really mattered, or it was jus somethin I felt. The GK series of micros were my faves overall. In fact, a GK mb200 kicked tail over the few Aggie 750s I used. But, after tryin all these heads, upon my returnin home I needed to buy a new rig. I bought an "old school" Eden. One of the original "micro" amps... The difference in weight? Negligible, to me. I'm 46, I work, I play tons an I can lift 18lbs to sound/feel like I want. For me? MY sound comes first. Not others'. Or, what others tell me. I respect all the opinions here, guys who build amps, sound companies who use amps, et al. They are right. Everythin sounds great if used with knowledge gained from experience. But, for me, it wasn't what the digital amps were missing, it was what my "heavy" amps have. My sound. I can't explain better than that. My sound, mine, comes first. An whether it's my Demeter/crown rig, my SWR SM-900 or my new Eden WT600, I could not find a better sound. For me. 18lbs ain heavy, to me. 35lbs in a rack is not heavy. My sound? Is...
Click to expand...

This may be the most reasonable and articulate post I have read on the subject. Thanks Nameless.
 
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#572
I've recently gone to the Demeter VTBP-M-800D. I have an Aguilar DB-750 up for sale. If I were doing colisseum gigs, with roadies, I'd probably stay with Aguilar. It's a bloody great amp, with amazing power. Unfortunately, it's also VERY HEAVY, due to the massive power transformer that does all the work.

The Demeter sounds freakin' amazing. It hasn't even come close to running out of power at any gig so far. To be fair, I haven't done a really big stage with it yet, but it does not fart out, and it does not get lost on stage. There is a difference in the quality of the sound, but frankly, I'm not missing anything. the 10lb weight also means that I'll be using it in a lot more small and medium sized rooms.

The sound differences to me are on the subtle side. The weight and size differences are enormous, and right now, for me, that counts for a lot.
 
#573
The Nameless said:
No... One handed. I am overestimating weight. Eden WT600, anna rack panel loaded with two fans in a military, old school 6sp SKB rack. It is still lighter than my suitcase I travel with. Clothes an such... I weigh 150 at 6ft tall. Skinny. But apparently way strong. Ha! I been playin fer 30+ years. Used to have ACTUALLY heavy rigs. This? To me? Is nuthin. Easy carry. I play up to six nights a week. Usually 3-4. What I'm sayin is, to me, that weight is nothin. Literally. I run an Eden 215 XLT. It is a dolly. I never lift it. Weighs less than a 410, an WAY easier to move, cuz even a "light" cab? I gotta lift, an I'd rather roll a cab than lift one. I'd love to try one of the more expensive lightweight heads. They supposed to be "better". But the law of diminishin returns enters. $2000 fer a head? Or $400 fer a heavier head that sounds better? Or, at LEAST, Equal to? I'll take the deal every time. I work 6 days a week fer a construction warehouse. I don't pay fer a gym. I work out while workin. Heh. My thing is, if 35 lbs too heavy fer a man? I gotta laugh. I don't buy gear just for one feature. I add up all the factors, an pick what's best for me. Weight, in basses or amps, is a feature far down the list of my concerns. Tone must be first. My sound. Not anyone elses. My opinion. Only. But it is mine...
Click to expand...

Yeah... I was being sarcastic, nameless. I use a 35 pound rack and an Ampeg 810 myself. Ain't nothing a man can't do.
 
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#574
The Nameless said:
No... One handed. I am overestimating weight. Eden WT600, anna rack panel loaded with two fans in a military, old school 6sp SKB rack. It is still lighter than my suitcase I travel with. Clothes an such... I weigh 150 at 6ft tall. Skinny. But apparently way strong. Ha! I been playin fer 30+ years. Used to have ACTUALLY heavy rigs. This? To me? Is nuthin. Easy carry. I play up to six nights a week. Usually 3-4. What I'm sayin is, to me, that weight is nothin. Literally. I run an Eden 215 XLT. It is a dolly. I never lift it. Weighs less than a 410, an WAY easier to move, cuz even a "light" cab? I gotta lift, an I'd rather roll a cab than lift one. I'd love to try one of the more expensive lightweight heads. They supposed to be "better". But the law of diminishin returns enters. $2000 fer a head? Or $400 fer a heavier head that sounds better? Or, at LEAST, Equal to? I'll take the deal every time. I work 6 days a week fer a construction warehouse. I don't pay fer a gym. I work out while workin. Heh. My thing is, if 35 lbs too heavy fer a man? I gotta laugh. I don't buy gear just for one feature. I add up all the factors, an pick what's best for me. Weight, in basses or amps, is a feature far down the list of my concerns. Tone must be first. My sound. Not anyone elses. My opinion. Only. But it is mine...
Click to expand...


Just remember that just because someone might like to carry lighter loads does not mean they are not a "man" or don't work out. I am about your weight and height and also have a physical job as well as avid rock climber, back packing and other athletic passtimes - I can lift the stuff, I just don't want to cause there is such good sounding stuff that is light. But, as you said, that is my tone and my thang. There is something for all of us now days :hyper:
 
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#575
jazztonebass said:
This may be the most reasonable and articulate post I have read on the subject. Thanks Nameless.
Click to expand...


Nice to see this thread emerge from 'crazy'. Yes, that post sums up my oft posted comment that 'every amp sounds different'. The poster preferred the tiny, low end, low powered GKMB200 to the massively old school lead sled DB750. Perfectly valid, and goes to show that preferred tonality has little to do with any specific feature of an amp, whether that be weight, power amp design, number of knobs, power rating, box size, etc., etc. Nothing wrong with ending up with one of the earlier Eden amps... classic tone, good reliability, and as a bonus, reasonably small and light, and a signature tone (like any other amp/amp line) that many still like over all others.

Best to use your ears on all this stuff and watch the TB threads carefully for 'problem posts' to at least get some handle on reliability. I always purchase an amp based on tone first, and that has (at least for the last 25 years) resulted in me owning an almost random mix of amps based on size, weight, and 'component specifications'

The key here is to not eliminate anything due to preconceptions or 'listening with your eyes'. You might be surprised at what you end up liking, whether that be an 80 pound tube amp, or a 2 pound micro!
 
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#576
middy said:
Yeah... I was being sarcastic, nameless. I use a 35 pound rack and an Ampeg 810 myself. Ain't nothing a man can't do.
Click to expand...

I got that sarcasm just as I hit send. I'm used to readin an replyin to those adamant guys who do think 35lbs is too much. Ha! Y'got me... If I could afford one rig that hadda be light? Demeter. All the way. But I can't rationalize the expense. Considerin what I do. My whole rig; WT6, 215xlt an 210xlt, cost me less than just the Demeter head. I do dream. But today? I can still lift 35lbs. And I am SO happy wit my tone. So? I live wit my sled. Happily.
 
#577
The Nameless said:
I got that sarcasm just as I hit send. I'm used to readin an replyin to those adamant guys who do think 35lbs is too much. Ha! Y'got me... If I could afford one rig that hadda be light? Demeter. All the way. But I can't rationalize the expense. Considerin what I do. My whole rig; WT6, 215xlt an 210xlt, cost me less than just the Demeter head. I do dream. But today? I can still lift 35lbs. And I am SO happy wit my tone. So? I live wit my sled. Happily.
Click to expand...

And, dollars does not always mean 'better for you'. I took the plunge on a Monique/Demeter head (over $2,000), since I just love trying all this stuff. I ended up preferring my 'under $600' Aguilar TH500. Pretty much the same wump (both units use the same ICE module, which doesn't mean 'same performance' always, but in this case, seemed to), and the Aguilar just worked better (more punchy and grunty) for the tone I currently go for. So, the size/weight/price advantage of the Aguilar TH500 was just a secondary bonus (the DeMonique is about the size of an Eden WT800, although quite a bit lighter... that wouldn't have bothered me at all).

Really nothing out there other than the super low end that isn't great sounding in an absolute sense IMO and IME.
 
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#578
KJung said:
And, dollars does not always mean 'better for you'. I took the plunge on a Monique/Demeter head (over $2,000), since I just love trying all this stuff. I ended up preferring my 'under $600' Aguilar TH500. Pretty much the same wump (both units use the same ICE module), and the Aguilar just worked better (more punchy and grunty) for the tone I currently go for. So, the size/weight/price advantage of the Aguilar TH500 was just a secondary bonus (the DeMonique is about the size of an Eden WT800, although quite a bit lighter... that wouldn't have bothered me at all).

Really nothing out there other than the super low end that isn't great sounding in an absolute sense IMO and IME.
Click to expand...

Kjung, I was bein a bit sarcastic myself about the weight thing. I never in my life thought I'd see the day folk were askin how much an amp weighs before purchasing. Heh. I do think that is funny. But, times change. Heh. I meant no disrespect. I value your opinions an expertise in this arena, an prolly shoulda worded my replies different. But? In honesty? A guy complainin bout ten or twelve pounds would give me reason to give him a bit o'guff. In fun. Ha! Sorry...
 

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