Once again, a 410 + 115 thread.

[micguy]

You can't over power the pro neo series. It's impossible.

Impossible? Nothing is impossible if you have someone stupid enough to try.

Most speakers have power ratings that are derived from the thermal limit of the voice coil. That power, if applied at a low enough frequency (below the passband) will usually kill a driver mechanically fairly easily.

 

[Whale guy]

Have played my classic 410 ev cabinets for years. Just got 2 115 cabinets because I want that fat rich sound, and boy do they deliver. My only concern is what do the subs sound like out front? That is what the folks hear. Probably a high end kazoo.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Impossible? Nothing is impossible if you have someone stupid enough to try.

Most speakers have power ratings that are derived from the thermal limit of the voice coil. That power, if applied at a low enough frequency (below the passband) will usually kill a driver mechanically fairly easily.

I've done that

 

[Jeff Scott]

My only concern is what do the subs sound like out front?

I hope your FOH guy is putting you through the whole PA, not just the subs.

 

[line6bassist]

I still rock the 410/115 setup

 

[GreyBeard]

Back in the 90's I bi-amped a Hartke 4.5XL and a 115XL. I ended up just using the 4.5 as it was plenty loud enough. I still have the 115XL that I have pr'd with a 2x10XL. If you like that Hartke Aluminum punch (which I do) it is hard to beat. I haven't used it yet as I haven't had a situation for it. But, I'll get around to it if I get the chance.

 

[bobdabilder]

I played a big venue with an ampeg 410/15 cab. Maybe designated 5410 or something. That thing was killer. Still want to buy one but just don't trust buying used. Man that thing sounded great running my sr5 through it.
Edit.1540

 

[Rip Van Dan]

While the numbers say the 115 cab will produce more low, more than likely the 410 cab will create more decibels, assuming the similar cab efficiency, which may over power the 1-15 cab to the point you can’t here it. Of course, if you have a stereo power amp that would not be an issue.

Yeah, exactly. Although it could be the other way around. I had purchased a GK115bpx cab back in ~2006 along with a GK 250 backline which is actually a 125-watt rms amp and has a minimum ohms load of 8Ω. Back in 1997 I had used a GK guitar amp with a couple of JBL 112 with full size horn cabs and it had sounded great. So I was expecting great things and was very sadly disappointed. It was a real boomy and muddy cab. Got an Eden Nemesis RS400 with a lot more power and still had to drop the Bass EQ. Also had to get another cab because my Sunn cab would only handle 100-watts and the RS400 would push it into farting-out way too easily. So I bought an acoustic B410. Wasn't doing that poor 410 any favors by dropping the bass EQ...it needed it.

Then got an Eden WT500/800 which does 400-watts rms per channel into 4Ω and bridges at 8oo-watts into 8Ω. This dual-powerblock amp has a wonderful control called "balance". If you have cabs plugged into both sides, it will let you adjust the balance of sound between the two power channels. Well, I plugged my 410 into one side and that GK115bpx in the other and it still sounded boomy and muddy right up until I turned the balance knob a little bit over to the side that the 410 was plugged into. Then the amp sent more power to the 410 than it did to the 115, and lo and behold I dialed in a really nice sound in a matter of seconds. I used that 410+115 set up until 2015 when I bought my DNS-410. That one 410 was far better sounding and far louder than my 410 plus my 115 and I only had to move one cab around, not two.

 

[PrinceByTor]

I have an Ampeg 1540 he 410 on top and 115 on the bottom ported. Wot got me to pull the trigger to get one was the 28hz usable low frequency for use with the low B on my 6-stringer with the 4-10s for the high end of the top strings. I've had no real problems with it at all especially since I started to run it with an SVT VR, it thumps loud and sounds excellent. Perhaps I’m not having any problems because the drivers are matched in one cabinet, who knows?

I still see some big named bassists like Victor Wooten still use the 410 and 115 combo the last I checked.

 

[el murdoque]

see that’s the thing. Back in the uneducated age, we had bi-amping. That’s where there are two separate amplifiers inside the head, with an adjustable crossover, so the one amp handled high frequencies, and the other handled low frequencies. In this scenario the 4x10 would get the highs, and the 15 would get the lows. Your job then, was simply to find the best crossover frequency, then balance between the two outputs for a good overall sound. In this scenario, much like Tri-amp PA systems, it made perfect sense to have different speaker arrays for highs and lows. The trouble started when people started pumping the full range amp signal through both cabinets. That was when you were subject to the potential ill effects of mismatched frequency responses, power handling capabilities, and phasing issues resulting from overlapping frequency dispersion to multiple partners.

Plus, as has been mentioned before, it just looked really cool behind you.

I totally get a Bi-Amping setup (did it myself) - but if you take a common 115 bass guitar cabinet and a common 410 bass guitar cabinet of the same quality ... you'll have two full range cabinets, one very capable of moving lots of air and doing lows and one which is a bit weaker in that department because it lacks surface area. The weaker one will do the heavy lifting while the stronger one will bear the lighter weight of doing reduced lows.

A setup like that would be better matched with a 1x10 on top of the 1x15.

Replace the fullrange 115 with a capable PA subwoofer and we're talking.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Yeah, exactly. Although it could be the other way around. I had purchased a GK115bpx cab back in ~2006 along with a GK 250 backline which is actually a 125-watt rms amp and has a minimum ohms load of 8Ω. Back in 1997 I had used a GK guitar amp with a couple of JBL 112 with full size horn cabs and it had sounded great. So I was expecting great things and was very sadly disappointed. It was a real boomy and muddy cab. Got an Eden Nemesis RS400 with a lot more power and still had to drop the Bass EQ. Also had to get another cab because my Sunn cab would only handle 100-watts and the RS400 would push it into farting-out way too easily. So I bought an acoustic B410. Wasn't doing that poor 410 any favors by dropping the bass EQ...it needed it.

Then got an Eden WT500/800 which does 400-watts rms per channel into 4Ω and bridges at 8oo-watts into 8Ω. This dual-powerblock amp has a wonderful control called "balance". If you have cabs plugged into both sides, it will let you adjust the balance of sound between the two power channels. Well, I plugged my 410 into one side and that GK115bpx in the other and it still sounded boomy and muddy right up until I turned the balance knob a little bit over to the side that the 410 was plugged into. Then the amp sent more power to the 410 than it did to the 115, and lo and behold I dialed in a really nice sound in a matter of seconds. I used that 410+115 set up until 2015 when I bought my DNS-410. That one 410 was far better sounding and far louder than my 410 plus my 115 and I only had to move one cab around, not two.

Back in the 70s I did a fair amount of bi-amping, using mis-matched gear , so I kind got learned a lot about it the hard way. That was one of the things that attracted me to Eden amps. I wanted the most flexibility in ways to plumb it up.

Of course there is that sound thing which is an incredible experience…

 

[cassanova]

While the numbers say the 115 cab will produce more low, more than likely the 410 cab will create more decibels, assuming the similar cab efficiency, which may over power the 1-15 cab to the point you can’t here it. Of course, if you have a stereo power amp that would not be an issue.

I'm strictly referring to frequency response. I thought it went w/out saying that a 410 would yield a higher db than a single 115 would due to the speaker area being greater. There's an SVT 115CL where I rehearse. I think I'm going to connect it to my PN210, and then the 410CL that's there. Will also be running through an SWR Working Pro 410 and 115 tomorrow night, both 15's are 200 watts. The pn210 is 550, 410cl 500, and SWR 400. Should be an interesting test to see how much the 15's are getting drowned out.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Gotcha. Might I suggest a lot of cabs, like my Eden D-210XST is rated to go down to 32hz and it’s rated at 500 watts RMS @ 103 efficiency. I’d feel fairly confident on it standing up well to a 1-15 cab, and possibly exceeding it in dbs as well as it’s low frequencies.

I get what you are saying, and understand what your are looking for, but the 410 + a 115 to increase your low end is somewhat of an outdated notion, like bi-amping for instance, mainly because of most 10”cabs are now full range.

But hey, enjoy your rehearsal. I love playing with gear and haven’t had the opportunity much in the last 20 years or so. I’m envious!

 

[lomo]

...so many responses along the lines of "because people like the sound of it....or.....because it sounds good"....but how many of those who like it and believe it sounds good really just love the way it looks and have actually, blindly (and therefore objectively) compared it to 2x15, 410 alone (driven harder), etc? Precious few, methinks. The vast majority of Homo Sapiens do what we do because we wanna, and rationalize it as being "right" on the rebound.....which is why about 9 billion of us are currently trashing our communal, terrestrial vessel. It is what it is.

 

[sprag]

Here is the answer:

1. 410 sounds good.

2. On stage with a band 410 up closer to ear level sounds better.

3. 115 is usually cheaper than another 410 (same make and series) and looks a lot better than a couple of milk crates.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Probably got mentioned already but here it goes

I think Billy Sheehan, back when he was doing a 4x10 1x15 thing. Switched it up doing the 15 as the mid-highs and the 4x10 as the lows. Now I think he's using all 15s

On a different note...

 

[Analogeezer]

Not the same exact thing the OP is talking about but I frequently have used a combination of a 1 x 18" (no horn) with a 2 x 10" (with horn). These are Carvin cabinets (the Redline series) which most people are not that gaga over but they are very light (they use Poplar plywood) and the 2 x 10" came in 2nd or 3rd in a period (1998) Bass mag shootout. I think they sound great but for me the player, the bass and the preamp section of your rig has a lot more impact than the speaker cabinets but that is just my personal philosophy.

I also have the Carvin Redline 1 x 15" but found I prefer the 18" when used with the 2 x 10", makes for a slightly taller stack and has more low end.

Both of these cabinets are four ohms.

The thing with a rig like this is it helps a lot to have an amp with two power amp sections or to use an actual power amp where each cabinet gets it's own amp. That way you can balance the two cabinets effectively.

Having said that I usually have run both channels of my power amp wide open.

This kind of setup (mixed cabinets) might not work as well driving both off the single channel of a bass amp head.

For reference the rig I am describing uses an Ampeg SVP-Pro tube preamp into a QSC PLX-1602 power amp. At four ohms per channel that's 500 watts into each cab, yes 1,000 real power amp RMS watts.

I have used this in larger venues and outdoors and this rig flat out rages, sounds fantastic.

On other occasions I have used this same amp rack with TWO Carvin 2 x 10's stacked on the stage and quite frankly I liked the 18" and 2 x 10" combination a lot better.

As far as what the OP is talking about I would suggest a 2 x 10" on top of the 15" cab. You won't get the same volume as the 4 x 10" but it will be far lighter and easier to lug around than a 4 x 10" unless you are using some kinda boutique lightweight 4 x 10".

For me (and I have played in VERY LOUD BANDS WITH LOUD DRUMMERS) I find a single 2 x 10" powered by a 350 watts head (either an Ampeg B2-R or a Bugera BVP-5500) is sufficient for smaller (say 50 to 100 seat) venues.

Depends on your style and your bass of course, if you play five string and do a lot of detuned and low pitch stuff a single 2 x 10" might not be the ticket, in that case you might prefer the 4 x 10", especially as a standalone.

Analogeezer

 

[DJ Bebop]

Not the same exact thing the OP is talking about but I frequently have used a combination of a 1 x 18" (no horn) with a 2 x 10" (with horn). These are Carvin cabinets (the Redline series) which most people are not that gaga over but they are very light (they use Poplar plywood) and the 2 x 10" came in 2nd or 3rd in a period (1998) Bass mag shootout. I think they sound great but for me the player, the bass and the preamp section of your rig has a lot more impact than the speaker cabinets but that is just my personal philosophy.

I also have the Carvin Redline 1 x 15" but found I prefer the 18" when used with the 2 x 10", makes for a slightly taller stack and has more low end.

Both of these cabinets are four ohms.

The thing with a rig like this is it helps a lot to have an amp with two power amp sections or to use an actual power amp where each cabinet gets it's own amp. That way you can balance the two cabinets effectively.

Having said that I usually have run both channels of my power amp wide open.

This kind of setup (mixed cabinets) might not work as well driving both off the single channel of a bass amp head.

For reference the rig I am describing uses an Ampeg SVP-Pro tube preamp into a QSC PLX-1602 power amp. At four ohms per channel that's 500 watts into each cab, yes 1,000 real power amp RMS watts.

I have used this in larger venues and outdoors and this rig flat out rages, sounds fantastic.

On other occasions I have used this same amp rack with TWO Carvin 2 x 10's stacked on the stage and quite frankly I liked the 18" and 2 x 10" combination a lot better.

As far as what the OP is talking about I would suggest a 2 x 10" on top of the 15" cab. You won't get the same volume as the 4 x 10" but it will be far lighter and easier to lug around than a 4 x 10" unless you are using some kinda boutique lightweight 4 x 10".

For me (and I have played in VERY LOUD BANDS WITH LOUD DRUMMERS) I find a single 2 x 10" powered by a 350 watts head (either an Ampeg B2-R or a Bugera BVP-5500) is sufficient for smaller (say 50 to 100 seat) venues.

Depends on your style and your bass of course, if you play five string and do a lot of detuned and low pitch stuff a single 2 x 10" might not be the ticket, in that case you might prefer the 4 x 10", especially as a standalone.

Analogeezer

I did the same thing only bi-amped with PA gear to eventually their Carvin BX1500

I liked the bi-amping with a crossover thing better than running everything full range. More clarity less mud

 

[Analogeezer]

I did the same thing only bi-amped with PA gear to eventually their Carvin BX1500

I liked the bi-amping with a crossover thing better than running everything full range. More clarity less mud

Just curious when you were running full range what sort of preamp/power were you using?

I have a large bi-amped rig I rarely take out because it's a lot of stuff to haul and more complexity.

I did the two cabs/Ampeg Preamp/QSC power amp thing because it was easy to set up and haul around.

Analogeezer

 

[DJ Bebop]

Just curious when you were running full range what sort of preamp/power were you using?

I have a large bi-amped rig I rarely take out because it's a lot of stuff to haul and more complexity.

I did the two cabs/Ampeg Preamp/QSC power amp thing because it was easy to set up and haul around.

Analogeezer

When I went bi-amped I never ran full range. It was either an existing amp pre out into a stereo PA power amp Carvin or QSC and a Rolls or Behringer crossover into two Peavey 1820, then I moved on to just a 1x18 with either a 1x10 or 1x12, once in a while both. Later I used just the Carvin BX1500 to power the whole thing. That amp was set up to bi-amp within itself.

PS I also had a Carvin Cycolps combo amp that got me into looking at a smaller bi-amp system as the Cyclops was a 1x15-2x8 bi-amped combo amp :Ol
I also teamed up a Peavey 4x10 with the 1x18 a couple of times and it was also bi, -amped, lows to the 18, mids and highs through the 4x10s.

Back in my full range days, it was Ampeg B-15, Marantz model 8B tube power amp.into two infinite baffle 1x15 Hard Trucker looking things ,
Standel 2x12 combo, various Sunn products, Coliseum, Concert, Model T with Sunn cabs, whatever I could get my hands on, like most of us

Now it's a Mesa WD-800 and an old Aguilar GS 112