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Double Bass Palatino Megathread part I

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#581
Dr Dorkenstein said:
I've found a tailpiece cord for a cello - nylon (the bass ones I found were all coated steel) - and it's exactly 28cm, which should mean that it's the right length to replace the tailpiece without having to move the bracket. I'll let you know if it works.
Click to expand...

HI Dr D,

Well Done!
Never gave it a thought that one would be available for the cello. I think from memory I measured the total length of the metal Tail Piece months ago and it did indeed measure 28cm. If it has threaded ends then that would be the way to go. I would thread it down to as far as you can so that you have maximum length of string behind the bridge, but experiment for comfort and sound.
I'll be away for 6months so I'll look forward to see the progress in finding that elusive sound when I get back.
Luke.
 
#582
KOOLHAND said:
HI Dr D,

Well Done!
Never gave it a thought that one would be available for the cello. I think from memory I measured the total length of the metal Tail Piece months ago and it did indeed measure 28cm. If it has threaded ends then that would be the way to go. I would thread it down to as far as you can so that you have maximum length of string behind the bridge, but experiment for comfort and sound.
I'll be away for 6months so I'll look forward to see the progress in finding that elusive sound when I get back.
Luke.
Click to expand...

I think the cello tail gut would be strong enough to hold bass strings. If you try it be very careful. Can you imagine it letting go what would happen?
 
#585
Koolhand, 1st- I didn't find yr remarks upsetting in ANY way & was U bit surprised to find that some did-in some way... but each to their own. BTW I'm a person who HAS spent some $$$$ on the bass or parts 4 it!
Also- thanks again for the info on the GUT mod.... will be trying it asap. The cello Idea is cool to -thanx DOC!!!
I'll of course post my findings on here once I do get around to trying this.
PM me if U like Luke if U want me to email U any findings direct.
And to ALL bassists..... Take care, be cool & KEEP PLAYING!
Cheers all.
 
#586
I have owned my Palatino for about one month and it has greatly exceeded my expectations. As a jazz player it is a real money maker since most people seem to prefer an upright of any kind.

I feel that the criticisms of the instrument are overdone. I bought the instrument without seeing it based on the good looks and what I considered desireable specs i.e ebony finggerboard, scale length etc.

The musicians that have heard it like the sound. Since I double on guitar I work with some of the best bass players in town. The sound of this instrument is as good or better than most of the accoustics which do not amplify well at higher volumes. A friend has a Messenger which records and sounds better but I attribute this to the $500 Bartolini pickup. If I ever have to have this pickup I can order it. The cost of the Palotino and pickup would still be about $2500 less and has a more attractive body IMHO.

At this price point I expected to do substantial upgrades even before discovering this site. I do not feel that major modifications are needed now. Here is what I have done:

1. Dampened the tailpiece with foam to reduce body noise.
2. Put thin rubber strip between the pickup and body to reduce body noise.
3. Bent the tubing back to suit my comfort then added rubber insulation which helps hold the bass in place while playing.
4. Placed rubber insulation around end pin tubing for comfort and stability. Put a white rubber chair protector on end to keep it from sliiping on hard floors.
5. Replaced the plastic output jack square with a heavy duty metal one (Les Paul Style) because the jack became loose and I thought I could tighten it more with the metal. Since it came losse again this did not work. I may replace the jack itself if comes loose again.
6. I reinstalled thetailpiece feet which I may have installed backwords out of the box. I installed the feet so that the one maked E faces the bridge. Getting the feet on correctly appears to be a creitical factor in the balance between low E and G strings.
7. I lowered the action for playability. This is the best playing bass I have ever owned - by far.
8. Strings are great - far better than what I have on my 2 uprights. I will not replace them untill they are dead.
9. Mounted a Fishman pickup on the bridge in case I don't have a spare battery. The Fishman with a premap does not sound nearly as good as the factory pickup

Dislikes:
1. This is a heavy body - make it lighter.
2. The preamp doesn't turn off when unplugged. I have already run down the battery.
3.The preamp eq seems to either boost treble or cut the bass. At least two bands are needed. I set tone close to full bass with only minor adjustments while playing. The pre is not nosiy! I plugged it in to my Mackie preamps with no noticeable noise - in live situations you will never hear the noise set up as described.
4. Case is not padded and is awkward to use. May make a hard plywood case.

Bottom line - this a great value and the mods I have done I would expect to do on any bass that I would have purchased.

I may wire it to get a direct out form the pickup then connect both pre out and direct out to a stereo TRS jack which would allow choosing the configuration with or without the preamp.

The taipiece nneds to be upgraded for looks. I planned to make an ebony tailpiece but may not if I can get a better sound with a sacony style gut cable.


Thanks to all who shared their mods.


Gary
 
#587
Welcome Gary & thanx for posting those tips... some of which have already been covered in this HUUGE thread.
I, too, think the Palatino is a good bass-especially for the $$$. It's been on over 100 gigs with me so far, & all I've done is put new strings, foam under tail piece, rubber under & over some of piezo p/up. I recently bought a Fishman Platinum + preamp- which helps with EQ ing & give a bit more thump!
Congrats on yr Palatino & welcome to the club!
Rod.
 
#588
Oh yes indeedy!

The cello tailpiece arrived today. 2 minutes to fit. Seems to be taking the tension of the strings well (only time will tell if it is strong enough).

Hats off to Mr Koolhand - this mod really makes a huge difference to the sound. That stupid metal tailpiece is gone forever, and all clangy metallic notes with it. The sound is much more woody, organic, earthy.

Huge thanks to everyone who has tried out mods and posted them here - with the cello tail gut, bicycle inner tube under/over the piezo and a new set of D'Addario Helicore Pizzicatos, I now have just the most fantastic-sounding bass. I can hardly stop playing it long enough to post here!

Cheers, everyone!
 

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#590
Very nice, Dr. Dorkenstein. I think I shall purchase a cello cord myself when I go to the music store for my oboe lesson on Monday. I've also been kicking around another idea lately. I want to try putting a hipshot bass extender on the E string, but I don't know if it will work or not. I was thinking that one could install it the same way, but seeing as the inside part of the peg is longer than a bass guitar's you would have to trade that part out. Anyone know if this would work? I thought this would probably be the closest one to the tuners on the Palatino: http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=63
 
#592
Guys,

I have the strangest coincidence of problems occurring with my Palatino. I still have the stock bridge and stock strings on it (I already bought Hybrid Mediums for it...but I'm waiting for a woodworker friend to finish the bridge before I string up the new strings).

The Low E string's output always seems to be weaker than A and D strings. It never gives that powerful BOOM sound when I pedal down. I've equalized very treble to VERY muddy bassy...still the same problem. I figured it was a bridge-contact issue so I tried adjusting the bridge more toward the tail-piece and vice-versa. Still no luck. I figured it may be the stock string's crappy tonal/resonance qualities. I sure the new strings help on that, but any thoughts?

Secondly, even with that weaker output, at a recent gig, I started noticing that certain notes would remain "floating" after I played them. One of them was open E (i'd play it, and when i'd mute the strings, the piezo pickup would remain ringing). I've noticed that if I have the bass on, and I move it, every scratch, bump, and hit on the bottom gets amplified and resonates. I wondered if what was occurring was some sort of acoustic feedback...that the E string resonates within the few hollow points of this bass and causes that long resonance on that note. The other note, I believe, was Bb (on the E string). Is this the dreaded "tailpiece ring" everyone speaks about? Funny enough, I sometimes hear the ring on the TOP of the fretboard, not the bottom of the bass...or am I getting labels wrong and the tailpiece is where the scroll/tuning pegs are? Solutions?

So, at the same time, I have a string whose output is WEAKER than the others...and yet, it's that very string which seems to send the strongest feedback frequency. I'm not a frequency expert, so forgive me if I described something completely normal, but I would have thought i'd have these problems with the stronger output strings.

Is this the nature of piezo pickups? Is my only solution to go with another pickup connected to the bridge directly, buy an external pre-amp (like the Fishman Platinum Pro designed for uprights AND electrics), or is there something I could do in the meanwhile to help control those frequencies and give more output power to the E strings.

I have a latin-jazz/salsa gig tonight and they were adamant that I'd play the upright (they fell in love with the baby bass sound now...they're spoiled), so I'm trying to find quick solutions for tonight.:D I'm taking my electric, just in case...

By the way, the bridge I'm getting made is based on Yvarg's plexiglass design (the PDF he gave us), so it's solid (not with adjusters). What pickups would be recommended for use with the Palatino with a solid bridge WITHOUT wings or adjusters? I've seen some of those "nicotine patch" looking ones, but don't know much about them. Any thoughts on that too?

P.S - I run the palatino through an Ampeg BA210SP combo amp, with everything onboard.
 
#593
Hi Jamiefoxer,

I wonder if the prolonged ringing after you damp the e-string is actually the ringing of that darned metal tailpiece - I had the same problem before I padded it (and then got rid of it altogether and replaced it with a nylon cello tailpiece). As for the poor sound from the e-string, have you tried the bicycle inner tube under and over the piezo? It evens out and improves the response from the pickup quite nicely.

Cheers!
 
#594
I reckon the ringing IS the tailpiece. Just stuff a lump of foam in under it to stop any ringing. Also rubber-such as some from a bicycle or car inner tube - under the feet of the bridge will help all yr probs IMHO/IME, I had similar probs, I just put 2 layers of rubber under the side of the bridge where the volume was louder. It seemed 2 'dampen' the sound a bit & evened out the strings.
YES the 'real' stings will help also, but U can get it sounding good with the stock strings...U DON'T NEED to get another p/up OR pre amp..... U can if U want, but IME I got it sounding good as it is 1st! I've still got the original bridge :-(
But this morning I got a gut tail piece & mounted that earlier 2day!! See posts by KOOLHAND previous page! Seems to be a nice, more organic sound. Even tho it's Not GUT, but NYLON-they said they hadn't had gut ones in yrs!!!????? Nylon seems fine. BUT when (up until 2day, & 100's of gigs) I had the orig. tailpiece on-I did have a lump of foam stuffed in under it. I had a good sound!
 
#595
SUCCESS, Thanks guys!

Just played the latin-jazz / salsa gig, I put a black, thick, handcloth in between the strings and the tailpiece. It looks nice aesthetically AND it stopped all the ringing.

I lowered the action a little on the E side of the bridge, plus added extra rubber tubing under the bridge on that side. Success! The sound is now boomy, strong on the E side. now I can do those pedals down to the E string, for extra emphasis.

I had a blast playing the Palatino yesterday, and I got several compliments, both on the sound and the look of the bass.

This is a bass I'm going to gig with a lot...and I'm still playing with the stock bridge, strings, and pickups.

I agree, I don't need to change the pickups or preamp. Works just fine for what I need it.:D :hyper: :bassist:
 
#596
Jaimie Foxer- congrats!!!! Glad U found a good sound doing the VERY INEXPENSIVE-read.....free!!!!!- mods!!! Also, if U can be bothered, the tailpiece swap IS another very cheap mod that seems to make a good amount of improvement in it's sound. I bought one(a nylon cello tailpiece-bridge holder thingy!!;-) yesterday & have been tuning it up over & over-as the thing stretches into shape- so hopefully by this evening's gig(Sunday-6.30-9pm) it'll be stable enough to stay in tune for a set at least. I'm sure it will be as this mornin I only had to tune it slightly, where as yesterday it was going down (in pitch) from say Low E down to Low B !!!!
This morn - after all nite- it was only down a tone-to D.
Will report back here re it's sound with the new tailpiece after gig....probly 2morrow.
Oh yeah I also put an extra layer of inner tube rubber under the E & A side of the bridge as with the new tailpiece it seemed to be a little 'live -er' in that area. The rubber - again- fixed it!!!
 
#598
Trigg.... AA lead perhaps...as it's not there thru phones..more likely suggests a lead, have U tried a different one yet?

All:- had the 1st gig with the GUT/nylon tailpiece last nite... WOW what a difference. Sounds MUCH more natural, smooth & generally better. All band members said so too! Makes the 'high up the fingerboard' notes sound good too, where'as B4 they sounded almost un useable!!!!!!
Thanks Koolhand for the suggestion & pics! BTW I bought a cello one & it fit perfectly & seems 2 be taking strain OK too!
 
#599
no it ain't my lead, tried all of my other leads last night.
had a look at the wiring inside, and can't find anything wrong
still a loud hiss/hum when i play at any kind of volume (eases off a bit when i turn down the treble on my amp, but it's still there)
any more ideas anyone ???????
 
#600
Hey,

The hiss you are experiencing tells me you still have the stock preamp/VT controls on the bass. I may be the only one who says this out loud, but the internal wiring in many cases is bad and you are better off ripping it out and starting over. Some people here have talked about keeping the volume and tone controls on the bass very low and running the amp controls at a higher level. That just masks what is wrong to start with. I talked with a local music store guy who sells these and he admits the stock stuff that comes with the bass is not very good.

I know many will disagree and that's the way it goes.
 
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