Parliament Filter Funk! - Which Filter?

[BurningSkies]

I love the idea of people suggesting Source Audio digital recreations of the Mutron instead of just suggesting the analog original. So ass backwards it makes me laugh - TB in a nutshell.

A Mutron III will run you $250+ and you get one really good envelope sound.

The Spectrum is under $200 and can pretty much nail that sound and you'll have enough other envelopes as a value added that you can have a whole bunch of envelopes on hand for whatever...from 6 to 128 different ones at your fingertips.

So yeah, seems pretty 'ass backwards' as you suggest.

 

[giacomobass]

I just bought the C4 because it's has Great Sounds and tracking right out of the box before even getting into the editing and they are digital sounds so using a digital box seems appropriate.

That would only make sense as long as the DSP box had digital inputs and outputs, as well as what's to be connected directly before and after it. Otherwise you're just adding one more A/D/A conversion in your signal chain.

 

[SirMjac28]

Very intrigued by this pedal. It’s way too big and too complicated so of course I really want one.

It's smaller than you think and not as complicated either

 

[Bo0tsy]

A Mutron III will run you $250+ and you get one really good envelope sound.

The Spectrum is under $200 and can pretty much nail that sound and you'll have enough other envelopes as a value added that you can have a whole bunch of envelopes on hand for whatever...from 6 to 128 different ones at your fingertips.

So yeah, seems pretty 'ass backwards' as you suggest.

I've no doubt the Spectrum or C4 has a whole host of great envelopes. I've heard a few great demos. The Mu-Tron is more flexible than "one good envelope" though. The slightly dirty gain is great on its own, you get the squelch in high range, the dirty quack in low range, the ultra chewy downsweep in low range and the chirpier down sweep in the high range. On top of that you can set the peak from a subtle tone enhancer to full on funk machine. A genuine question, can the Spectrum or C4 emulate all those tones and react the same to your touch whether you are playing lightly or digging in to saturate the envelope and add that bit of distortion?

IMO the Manta previously couldn't do that, but if the Spectrum/C4 can then count me genuinely interested.

 

[Ryan L.]

Is there ever anything that is not the original that sounds 100% like the original? Highly doubtful you may hear it that way because you choose to but my guess would be that on a spectrum analyzer it would be different in some way. The Source Audio C4 and Spectrum are so close to the originals on some presets it makes no real difference. To some that believe they can hear all the nuances and find them not to be to their liking that is a personal choice . But to my ear and having had many filters before they sound how I want them to sound.

And I’m willing to bet, in a live situation, it’d be DAMN tough to tell the difference, if not impossible.

 

[Rib 13]

I concur, that's totally nasty (and I mean that in the nicest way). Well done @SpazzTheBassist.

Thanks....if I remember, the one I used on that recording was a DOD pedal I got in a pawnshop ( I still have it somewhere).....I'm certainly not tossing that in the ring compared to many mentioned here but the point I was trying to make was that it really depends what each user needs out of it.... My needs were/are simple: I just wanted something to go "bwowmp".... Ungated, Mid mounted pickups seem to trigger sympathetic vibrations where the bridge pickup soloed seems to be much more friendly and forgiving in that regard no matter what I use - but ymmv of course....... because I just wanted something to go "bwowmp", I could've used almost anything......it's like the Ferrari/Ford Escort analogy: if my goal is to go 35mph, both cars can do that

 

[hieronymous]

This is an interesting thread! The only filter that I use semi-regularly is the 3Leaf GR2 - I find that it's not always easy to get a usable sound, but A) I probably just need to work with it more, B) I can't sell it because Bootsy Collins personalized mine! Here's one track that I think works:



This is one of the first things I did with it, before meeting Bootsy (despite the picture, when I did meet him again)

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I keep being tempted by the Source Audio stuff, but get scared off because of a bad experience I had with the Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer. I love analog synths and prefer one knob per function, but also acknowledge the potential power of digital control. Never had something I could control from my iPhone - if I needed an envelope filter for a variety of sounds for a project, I might consider the C4 or even just the Spectrum, but have never played with any of the SA stuff...

 

[Bo0tsy]

This is an interesting thread! The only filter that I use semi-regularly is the 3Leaf GR2 - I find that it's not always easy to get a usable sound, but A) I probably just need to work with it more, B) I can't sell it because Bootsy Collins personalized mine! Here's one track that I think works:



This is one of the first things I did with it, before meeting Bootsy (despite the picture, when I did meet him again)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I keep being tempted by the Source Audio stuff, but get scared off because of a bad experience I had with the Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer. I love analog synths and prefer one knob per function, but also acknowledge the potential power of digital control. Never had something I could control from my iPhone - if I needed an envelope filter for a variety of sounds for a project, I might consider the C4 or even just the Spectrum, but have never played with any of the SA stuff...

What was the bad experience you had with the Chunk Octavius Squeezer? It's a great phat sounding analogue synth but with a horrendously complicated interface. Definitely never a plug and play pedal.

 

[hieronymous]

What was the bad experience you had with the Chunk Octavius Squeezer? It's a great phat sounding analogue synth but with a horrendously complicated interface. Definitely never a plug and play pedal.

Great description - yeah, it sounded incredible, some of the presets were interesting, and it seemed to offer so much promise in regards to programmability. Alas, within a couple of days I managed to overwrite the presets and wasn't able to reload the originals - it was supposed to have something like 50 presets, but I could only ever reload half of them. I even corresponded with the Chunk Systems guy. I never figured out how to program it, either. Looking back, it was a good idea that was too far ahead of its time - imagine if it had a USB interface where you could get a bigger view of what everything was doing? I should pull it out and record some sound samples...

 

[Bo0tsy]

Great description - yeah, it sounded incredible, some of the presets were interesting, and it seemed to offer so much promise in regards to programmability. Alas, within a couple of days I managed to overwrite the presets and wasn't able to reload the originals - it was supposed to have something like 50 presets, but I could only ever reload half of them. I even corresponded with the Chunk Systems guy. I never figured out how to program it, either. Looking back, it was a good idea that was too far ahead of its time - imagine if it had a USB interface where you could get a bigger view of what everything was doing? I should pull it out and record some sound samples...

I'm sure I did something similar with my Octavius Squeezer years ago and @gastric kindly helped me out. I think I eventually did a complete system reboot and reloaded all the v.10 firmware from a cheapie SD card as the OS was even fussy about which SD card it would accept. Definitely worth giving it another go if you can.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've no doubt the Spectrum or C4 has a whole host of great envelopes. I've heard a few great demos. The Mu-Tron is more flexible than "one good envelope" though. The slightly dirty gain is great on its own, you get the squelch in high range, the dirty quack in low range, the ultra chewy downsweep in low range and the chirpier down sweep in the high range. On top of that you can set the peak from a subtle tone enhancer to full on funk machine. A genuine question, can the Spectrum or C4 emulate all those tones and react the same to your touch whether you are playing lightly or digging in to saturate the envelope and add that bit of distortion?

IMO the Manta previously couldn't do that, but if the Spectrum/C4 can then count me genuinely interested.

Yeah, the Manta is a different thing.

My whole point is that the classic Mutron is great...but often envelopes are fairly specific tools (which is often why those of us who have 'em have gone through a bunch to find the ones that work. I've currently got two envelope filters on my board because they 'do different things' (and another twice as many sitting on a shelf). I have a C4 on the way. It promises not only to be an envelope filter design toolbox but also a synth design tool-box with a reasonably easy user interface...all for less than many envelopes and most synths.

I have a really nice Japanese Space Echo...obviously for board use. Most professional live dub engineers would rather bring their multiple RE-20's and a few digital verbs for the ease of use. Is the RE-20 as good as a legit 201? No. But it's 95% of the way there with lots less hassle in the live arena and easier to use on the fly. That's the way I look at this situation too.

I assume that the OP knows "ol' bootsy funk' is Mutron. You don't have to post on TB to discuss envelope filters to find that out in about 2 seconds. So why not discuss options that might be a great fit.

 

[BurningSkies]

And I’m willing to bet, in a live situation, it’d be DAMN tough to tell the difference, if not impossible.

Yep. 90 or 95% of the way there? Seems like a good thing given the extra flexibility. Often times that extra 5 or 10% is either us fooling ourselves or a conceit to being the perfectionist that only we will notice. And I'm more than just a little picky with my tone.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I have to the Mr Black FwonkBeta as well. That thing is insane and incredibly responsive. I try to use it whenever I think I can get away with it.

I liked it but I found it extremely tough to dial in. It’s one of the loudest and biggest sounding pedals I’ve ever played

 

[Stranger Danger]

I love my recently acquired EarthQuaker Devices Spatial Delivery - been through 8 filters before I found one that worked for ME. Was pretty much ready to give up on filters altogether until I found this one - knew within 10 seconds it was the one.

Filters are IMO frustratingly personal - I've heard cats use filters that sounded like just what I was after, but the filter didn't work for me when I tried it - especially in the area of triggering sensitivity (or lack thereof).

J

This is very true

 

[Stranger Danger]

A Mutron III will run you $250+ and you get one really good envelope sound.

The Spectrum is under $200 and can pretty much nail that sound and you'll have enough other envelopes as a value added that you can have a whole bunch of envelopes on hand for whatever...from 6 to 128 different ones at your fingertips.

So yeah, seems pretty 'ass backwards' as you suggest.

You’re right and I’d say his response is TB in a nutshell. Snarky and dismissive

 

[Hasty]

I liked it but I found it extremely tough to dial in. It’s one of the loudest and biggest sounding pedals I’ve ever played

That’s the weird thing about Envelopes. I found the Fwonk super easy to dial in on my rig. Before that I had a DOD MX25B and I couldn’t stand it, but everyone else seemed to love it.

 

[Stranger Danger]

That’s the weird thing about Envelopes. I found the Fwonk super easy to dial in on my rig. Before that I had a DOD MX25B and I couldn’t stand it, but everyone else seemed to love it.

Man I fired that thing up and nearly blew off the roof. I think it would love a passive jazz bass. My double humbuckers with 18 volt preamp not so much

 

[DJ Bebop]

Man I fired that thing up and nearly blew off the roof. I think it would love a passive jazz bass. My double humbuckers with 18 volt preamp not so much

I have found that pickup output affects the sensitivity of the funk box, I mean the envelope filter, regardless
of most brands. And that can hamper adjustment of the pedal.
But, you knew that...

 

[Stranger Danger]

I have found that pickup output affects the sensitivity of the funk box, I mean the envelope filter, regardless
of most brands. And that can hamper adjustment of the pedal.
But, you knew that...

I think the world of it. It’s a great pedal. I’d still have it if it had a level knob

 

[wraub]

I had an original one of these... it sounded quite good, and is still my personal funky flavor, but, needed cash...
It went on Reverb and was gone almost immediately, purchased by a well known bass player named after a bug.

But big ole boxes are just so cool! They've got the Funk!

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Via 1973 Seamoon Funk Machine V1 Pedal - Incredibly Funky Auto Envelope Filter Wah Effect