Passive-aggressive behavior

[LBS-bass]

Are you sure that you aren't the one being P/A?

Our BL got called out by our guitar player because he was doing all request nights (which meant any song that basically anyone requested that he even sorta knew and could find the words and chords to on his laptop. we tried to play, even if we didn't know it. On one particular night I recall we did an AC/DC song that the BL knew but I, playing bass, had never even heard. If I've heard a song I can take a stab at playing it but it makes it much more difficult to have not ever heard the song) after which the BL became P/A about the song list at shows and wouldn't even call any songs, just standing there between songs until someone in the band called out a song. It was, and still is, a mess.

Um, I've never done anything like you described.

Wanting to be fully credited for the work that you do is not passive-aggressive. Where do you get that idea? If you were working hard to line up gigs and shows and send out mailers and your bandmates were taking all the credit for that, how do you think that would feel?

The odds are very good that nobody's going to do this work. The lead singer has a PhD in psychology and his speciality is diversity training, for heaven's sake. He is not going to take credit for the things I do, and he's not going to want to do that. Nor does he have the time that I've had to put into that, nor does he have any desire to do that.

I don't really understand this "strong second" concept if it isn't shorthand for uncredited leadership. That doesn't work for me. I do a lot of networking in this town, I'm the only one in the band who has visibility on the scene, and shrinking back to let others take credit for any success I've managed to create doesn't really fit my goals.

I've worked my ass off to create a successful band, and succeeded. They can attempt to take over, and maybe they can do the things they want to do and also have success, but it will not be my success at that point, and I wouldn't take credit for it.

It's certainly not like I'm sitting here telling them they ought to be grateful for what they've got, or whatever. No, I just do the things they don't want to do, and we have managed to do well with that. I'm not going to keep doing it while someone else pretends to direct.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Are you sure that you aren't the one being P/A?

Our BL got called out by our guitar player because he was doing all request nights (which meant any song that basically anyone requested that he even sorta knew and could find the words and chords to on his laptop. we tried to play, even if we didn't know it. On one particular night I recall we did an AC/DC song that the BL knew but I, playing bass, had never even heard. If I've heard a song I can take a stab at playing it but it makes it much more difficult to have not ever heard the song) after which the BL became P/A about the song list at shows and wouldn't even call any songs, just standing there between songs until someone in the band called out a song. It was, and still is, a mess.

Please help me understand how your band story is related to the question you posed?

 

[51PRI]

Um, I've never done anything like you described.

Wanting to be fully credited for the work that you do is not passive-aggressive. Where do you get that idea? If you were working hard to line up gigs and shows and send out mailers and your bandmates were taking all the credit for that, how do you think that would feel?

The odds are very good that nobody's going to do this work. The lead singer has a PhD in psychology and his speciality is diversity training, for heaven's sake. He is not going to take credit for the things I do, and he's not going to want to do that. Nor does he have the time that I've had to put into that, nor does he have any desire to do that.

I don't really understand this "strong second" concept if it isn't shorthand for uncredited leadership. That doesn't work for me. I do a lot of networking in this town, I'm the only one in the band who has visibility on the scene, and shrinking back to let others take credit for any success I've managed to create doesn't really fit my goals.

I've worked my ass off to create a successful band, and succeeded. They can attempt to take over, and maybe they can do the things they want to do and also have success, but it will not be my success at that point, and I wouldn't take credit for it.

It's certainly not like I'm sitting here telling them they ought to be grateful for what they've got, or whatever. No, I just do the things they don't want to do, and we have managed to do well with that. I'm not going to keep doing it while someone else pretends to direct.

I didn't mean to say that YOU did what I did in the example I posted. My intention was to give a different view of P/A. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

OTOH If what you wrote in what I just quoted above is true then you just need to man up and fire that member who won't communicate with you and the rest of the band. Getting rid of a band member with drama, or a band with drama can make all the difference. I can tell you that from experience...RECENT experience.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I didn't mean to say that YOU did what I did in the example I posted. My intention was to give a different view of P/A. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

OTOH If what you wrote in what I just quoted above is true then you just need to man up and fire that member who won't communicate with you and the rest of the band. Getting rid of a band member with drama, or a band with drama can make all the difference. I can tell you that from experience...RECENT experience.

"Man up"?

 

[QweziRider]

...am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

That. Anything else would be a different and frustrating way to waste energy.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Talkbass always instructs people to act passive aggressive so this should be good.

 

[LBS-bass]

So, weird misunderstandings not withstanding, it sounds like the majority feel like my decision to just stand back is probably about the best I can make.

I'm not hurting for gigs or bands or anything like that; this particular band has always been a labor of love that represents the goals of the three principal players, and if one person's goals have changed or that person doesn't feel as though the work I do represents those goals well, then I believe it's run its course.

We had a good run though, and stepping back now would certainly equate to leaving on a high note.

I think that, assuming we rehearse next week, I'll just let them know that I'm no longer interested in doing the administrative work at all - no temporary respite - and that they may want to consider the possibility that they'll be looking for a new bassist in the future. We've done a lot together, but everything has an expiration date. I've got other bands to work with and other people asking for my help with promotion - the band I'm playing with tonight could use it, so I'll concentrate more on where I'm more welcomed.

 

[Danny O Danny]

Cheers to you for taking intentional steps to reduce the oxygen for drama to thrive. One thing I absolutely hate in band or work situations is unnecessary interpersonal drama.

 

[mrjim123]

I'm 71, and the statement you made that I can most most relate to is, "I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this."

I don't respond to at least half of my bandmates' texts. It's mostly mental masturbation (I'm talking probably 100+ texts per week - anxiety, nit-picking, over-analysis ... all ad nauesum).

Regardless of how you respond, it will be what it will be. Let it ride. It all seems to work itself out in the end. Kick back, let them flail, and try to enjoy the ride; it's simply not worth the worry.

 

[lokikallas]

You backed down when you should have called him out IMO. I would have handled it a bit different. I most likely would call them out in a way that is professional. Like saying “everyone else has replied, what’s your holdup?” Either you are in the group chat or not. If you aren’t in the chat are you in the band? I don’t tolerate BS well and I might have to get sarcastic if that didn’t work. You wouldn’t like me when I’m sarcastic.
I don’t respond to all the silly stuff that gets posted in my chats, but if it’s a question about schedule set list or logistics I will always respond.

 

[BadSanta1281]

Be the bass player. Let the rest of the band babysit this guy if they want to keep him.

 

[longfinger]

The strangest thing is that this guy comes across as the most drama-free, humble, lease problematic person you'll ever meet. This is passive with a capital P. Nobody would have imagined he'd be the one to cause trouble.

And that's also why I'm doubling down on my experience of "oh, I'm not doing that" as the most likely response. I think calling him on it will just make it worse.

Interesting. Is it possible he is just a non-active, take no initiative, do what's he's told type?

For example with the rehearsal of post#26, instead of asking him if he could make it and waiting for him to decide and reply, if you/singer simply told him, "rehearsal is back on, show up at this time ready to play". Would he have shown up?

Some people don't want to be asked, they want to be told.

 

[Bass Jones]

... I don't think they understand what that brings to the table, and they probably need to see it for themselves.

As a parent, you try to warn your kids the stove is hot, but as a kid, you never really get it until you touch it yourself.

I know women already know it, but just to say as a guy I know it's real, my ex is a singer and has so many stories of guys who just can't hear it coming from a woman. One drummer kept messing up Tell Me Something Good in rehearsal and blamed her saying she wasn't hitting the notes with him. She said the vocals follow the bass. Drummer gets angry and says she's wrong. Bass player finally had to step in and say she's right, vocals follow the bass before he would listen. The guy never could get over that.

The only real constructive advice I have is on the texts, if others are texting you individually to ask if he ever responded they should be texting the group but addressing him by name asking if he's yay or nay. But moot point now if you are are stepping back. Good luck, I hope you are able to keep the good parts of this band.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Been racking my brains over that one, as well. I don’t know. Some people don’t respond well to leadership from a woman. I would not have imagined this guy in that way but it makes more sense than anything else I can think of.

I’m the only one who advances ideas about how we might succeed as a band, and I am pretty strong on strategy. Could be this guy doesn’t agree with my vision but doesn’t want to say so. I’ve given everyone plenty of opportunity to chime in at every turn, but they don’t.

Has this always been his way of dealing with you?

 

[Topkat13]

The next time you see him ask him to help you understand why he doesn’t respond to your texts. IMO one cannot substitute a text for addressing these situations in person.

 

[ToneMonkey]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

Boundaries are key. Show up, be professional (as I know you are), then throw up walls to protect yourself. I’m glad you offloaded some of the communication stuff. When the BS overwhelms the positives, get outta Dodge.

I once made a huge mistake by not letting bandmates I liked and respected know how I really felt about another band member. The guy had no work ethic, integrity or much ability. I stopped short of issuing a “him or me” ultimatum, but that’s ultimately what I had to do. Now, I’d just do it sooner.

 

[Renaissance]

Quit the band.

You've already decided talking to the offending person will not work - so that's off the table.

You've already decided the non-offending bandmates won't have your back in a team meeting - so that's off the table.

Standing back and letting them "learn to drive the bus" isn't going to work. You're not that type of personality (nor am I). Is this the band with the singer who wants to book the band because a booking agent...? You poo pooed the idea because it didn't fit your plan for the band? Standing back while they try to figure out what to do will be a miserable existence until the band implodes.

Quit the band.

 

[ELG60]

It must be a very frustrating situation for you. The dynamics in play don't seem to indicate long-term sustainability. I'm cognizant of the additional potential issues of being a woman in the band context. Not fair, not right, just is what it is.

I wouldn't deign to offer recommendations for your next step . . . You're much more experienced in music than I, but I'd be considering the following to take a decision:

1. How much does this project contribute to your contentment, fulfillment, and overall happiness?

2. How key is Mr. P/A to the success, harmony, and personality of the band? (Obviously he doesn't contribute to your personal experience in a totally positive way, but objectively, how about the unit as a whole?)

Is replacing him an option, can you get the rest of the unit on-board, and how will this impact your dynamic with the rest of the band? And finally,

3. Is he the drummer? If so . . . Ū nœ wut Ū hafta dū

 

[chris1327]

People are so complex… what’s really stuck with me from this thread is the description of the OPs surprise when the behavior of the p/a person was revealed. Ive been in bands with a few extremely laid-back and gentle individuals that are delightful to be around… until the witching hour strikes… and it turns out that there’s a raging sociopath laying right beneath that mellow veneer. It’s a disconcerting feeling

 

[DaveParker39]

Everyone needs to sit down at the table and have a talk.