Passive-aggressive behavior

[Jason Hollar]

For practical purposes, what is a reasonable time ?

When I group text or email my guys for availability we all expect “ASAP” which to us is 20 min to a coupla hours if trying to book something. Anything longer is unprofessional and inconsiderate (unless on vacation etc.)

In possible defense of the PA/GL member, do they have a decent phone? Some curmudgeons who own older phones and/or discount cell services don’t often get clean group texts and so on.

If said band member does have good cell
Phone tech and choosing not to answer, then he’s a jerk who should be uninvited. Don’t throw away all your hard work over one stick in the mud.

 

[Spidey2112]

... and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

I'm sure there are hundreds of band mates who create their own drama, and yet still 'play well', with others.

And I'm sure there's plenty who don't.

That ego/inferiority complex... she a helluva drug.

 

[Spidey2112]

Don’t throw away all your hard work over one stick in the mud.

Especially if you're building an elevated A-frame near wetlands.

 

[Andy Marshman]

They practice at your studio? The next time the PA guy acts out, I'd say "you can pack up your stuff and get out of here right now" - after all, it's your turf. The BL can then, immediately, deal with the fallout. If it becomes the end of the band, it's not your fault.
I wouldn't have put up with this BS for this long. I probably would have given notice that I was leaving the group, particularly when you can play with others that don't have this crap going on.

 

[vindibona1]

Up to now I have been the default bandleader. Someone else is going to need to start booking shows, vetting venues, crafting set lists, sponsoring ads, maintaining our mailing list, etc.

If I step back I’m stepping all the way back.

I don't disagree with your attitude and I think an "all or nothing" approach is the only way to send a clear message. Without clear leadership there is nothing but chaos, which ultimately signals the end to the group. Is the person in question so important that they couldn't be dismissed from the group? Is it clear that you are the leader?

Perhaps talking to the other band members about it, see what they think and possibly holding a band meeting to address the issue head on? If you are the defacto leader now, maybe it's time that the band confirms that you are officially the leader. If the others are on board with you, then you have the ability to, in a profesional way, ask the offending member what's going on with him. If he tries to provide ANY excuse, then y'all have to make it clear that ignoring you or any member is unacceptable.

Alternately, perhaps leadership needs to be split; one member doing the booking, business end and the other as the "music director". I'm sure you understand the end result of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. IMO this has to be settled one way or another and hopefully it can be settled amicably, even if the other guy just has to suck it up.

 

[51PRI]

They practice at your studio? The next time the PA guy acts out, I'd say "you can pack up your stuff and get out of here right now" - after all, it's your turf.....

I thought the problem was that the P/A person wasn't responding to band texts...?

 

[Mark Ambler]

Hi LBS!

Haven't read all the thread, but if you're doing all the booking, organisation, etc, you're worth your weight in gold to that band! If you step back, the whole thing may (probably) fall apart, so that would be a last ditch option. I'd suggest a meeting with yourself, the singer, and the member in question, and talk things through. Essential that there are three people there as there needs to be a witness to what's said. Having said that, I'd probably just tell the band either he goes or I go, life's to short for this 'sort of stuff'.

Best,

Mark

 

[esoxhntr]

So, weird misunderstandings not withstanding, it sounds like the majority feel like my decision to just stand back is probably about the best I can make.

That may be the consensus, but I'm not sure it's the right decision. I read your comments about a "best before date", and you are totally correct on that score. But I also read the "labour of love" comment... so I'm guessing your feelings on this might be mixed.

I guess my question is - are you done with this band? Certainly you seem to have lots of opportunities, but how fond of this particular group are you? To relinquish all the organizational duties and then stand back and watch while someone else drives the bus into the ditch might be uncomfortable. Do you want to watch that happen, and do you want to wait around that long while it does happen?

There are times when letting things work themselves out is the right approach but it sounds more like an amicable (if possible) band discussion is in order. Maybe the meeting will tell you things you need to know - like whether or not to wrap it up, or bail, or take even stringer control. It would be more work to face the issues head on up front, but you'll have immediate feedback, and will be able to choose your immediate future with much less guesswork.

As for your bandmate... communication is key to a band's success. If he's failing to do that regularly, and especially if it's on purpose, then that's a problem and needs to be corrected. It sounds like you've created a band-aid solution that may just lead to more issues down the road. He may have been letting whatever is bugging him build up for a long time, and this is how it's manifesting itself. It's hard to know without having been around your band. Suffice it say that this group (or this individual) has managed to upset the person that is dong a lot of the legwork. IMO, that need to be addressed - calmly but firmly if possible.

Bailing would be faster and easier. I'm guessing that's not your style. I disagree on you standing back. That is not you. You need to be "you".

 

[azureblue]

solution is easy - send out an email that requires a direct response, and a dead line to respond. Like: We need to spend xxx for "whatever" because xxx, and I would like to have your opinion on it. Because I have other stuff looming I need a response by xx.
Then go ahead with the plan. The non responder will suddenly speak up, and then that is when you say "I asked for a response and you did not, so things rolled on."
This is essentially how any business does things - just follow it and don't make it personal - which is what your PITA is doing.. As de facto leader, you have to get stuff done, and personal crap messes that up. So just look at it as a business decision. If teh person acts up, then you put it on a non personal level - project - input - decision - action - end project...

 

[LBS-bass]

When you say "wow that really didn't suck" it logically implies that you think every other time you do a take it actually DOES suck. It's a passive-aggressive kind of thing to say.

How can other times we do it have sucked, when we have never played it before? The point being that you might expect it to suck the first time, but it didn't.

It's not "negative," it's a silly turn of phrase. You may go stand over there in the corner with the rest of the no sense of humor folks.

 

[LBS-bass]

Is there any chance that the OP is dealing with a P/A person who is having trouble with a jealous significant other at home? I have a friend in another band who had that problem.

I doubt it; his wife is quite nice, we have had both of them over for our jam-parties and she has sung with us at the jams, has a lovely voice, etc. She has always been quite friendly toward me.

 

[Aceman]

So..... the band consists of OP, the passive aggressive person, and 2(?) other people who are willing to complain behind PA's back, but not willing to talk to PA face to face?

Oooof.

And THAT is why I call it out loud, proud and in public.

"Next time you don't answer - I'm making the call on my own, and if you don't like that is a problem for all of you."

Nip that in the bud or it will never stop.

 

[LBS-bass]

Learn to steer friction to a better direction

Unfortunately I've been trying to do this for several months, but I can't make it happen. We're at plan B, which is letting go of it. I'm not going to change who I fundamentally am; I've helped these guys get what they said they wanted, which is a pretty successful band on our own terms, and if I were to become more demure or start hiding my sense of humor (which is also a big part of why our stage act works) then I wouldn't be putting forth my authentic and best self. So my feeling is they can take it or leave it but I'm more inclined to leave it at this point and let them pick up the heavy lifting.

 

[FenderB]

He's getting off by pulling your chain. People like him see themselves as inferior, so they bully people, ignore him, do your thing, and don't be intimidated by him, which it sounds like you already are. Once he figures out you not going to play his game, he'll be gone. And for god's sake, don't try to communicate with him; that's what he wants; he'll have you eating out of his hand.

 

[LBS-bass]

And THAT is why I call it out loud, proud and in public.

"Next time you don't answer - I'm making the call on my own, and if you don't like that is a problem for all of you."

Nip that in the bud or it will never stop.

When I have tried a heavy handed approach in the past, I'm accused of being too demanding or too bossy. And he is not the only member who will suggest that. That approach doesn't work here. They have a million excuses for why they can't get back to me within a few hours, some are legit. Not getting back to me within a day and a half is not legit, though.

 

[Nev375]

How can other times we do it have sucked, when we have never played it before? It's not "negative," it's a silly turn of phrase. You may go stand over there in the corner with the rest of the no sense of humor folks.

Oh, I have a sense of humor. Especially irony based humor.

As much as I'd love to help, it's clear to me now that you just wanted to vent.

I wish you luck with your band endeavors.

 

[LBS-bass]

Oh, I have a sense of humor. Especially irony based humor.

As much as I'd love to help, it's clear to me now that you just wanted to vent.

I wish you luck with your band endeavors.

Thanks. I'm going to be fine, either way.

Someone up there talked a little bit about how I mentioned it's a labor of love, and I think that's the key here. It's going to be tough to let go of, but the stuff I'm doing I am going to get to continue to do. This really isn't a "me" problem. It's a band problem, and someone else pointed out that the band has to address it. I agree with that.

Fortunately the same things I did that helped the band get to a successful place are still working in my favor on a personal level. So looking at it from that perspective, the work has not been futile. It's just going to take a different direction than expected, and after talking through all of this, I'm pretty sure that I'm ok with that.

 

[LBS-bass]

He's getting off by pulling your chain. People like him see themselves as inferior, so they bully people, ignore him, do your thing, and don't be intimidated by him, which it sounds like you already are.

He has no evidence to suggest that my chain is pulled. At all. I don't let him provoke me. I just let him act out and wait for someone else to prod him into responding.

 

[Nev375]

This really isn't a "me" problem. It's a band problem, and someone else pointed out that the band has to address it. I agree with that.

I agree with that statement too. You should keep doing what you are doing until the band addresses it.

 

[Shorelinegold]

Unfortunately I've been trying to do this for several months, but I can't make it happen. We're at plan B, which is letting go of it. I'm not going to change who I fundamentally am; I've helped these guys get what they said they wanted, which is a pretty successful band on our own terms, and if I were to become more demure or start hiding my sense of humor (which is also a big part of why our stage act works) then I wouldn't be putting forth my authentic and best self. So my feeling is they can take it or leave it but I'm more inclined to leave it at this point and let them pick up the heavy lifting.

Sorry for lengthy reply, but I'm coming into this late. tl;dr: LBS, you be you!

Nor should you change. I have to say, LBS, that I've been reading your comments for quite some time now, and even when you seem agitated or upset about something (which isn't often) you are always thoughtful in your comments, observations, and advice. I'm similarly somewhat sarcastic and I often step in it sometimes, but your self-awareness means you're not difficult or overbearing, by the sound of it, so if anyone has a continuing problem with that, it speaks more to their lack of self-confidence perhaps. I like to ascribe to the Ryan Reynolds School of Sarcasm myself--snark without meanness--"Since my timing was all over the place on that last song, I feel like I'm the only person properly qualified to remark on how bad our timing was."

From everything you're saying, it certainly sounds, among other things to be a problem he has with capable, expressive women. So there's that, and other than a come-to-Jesus moment for him, not sure how that gets resolved. In my experience, bands pretty much always have to have a "band leader" to corral players, repertoire, gig schedules, etc., but I've never been in a good band where either the band leader is overbearing, there is no band leader (anarchy), or there is a good band leader but not everyone pitches in or shows teamwork. Stepping back and letting someone else take the reins sounds like a good strategy.

But I'm concerned that if this guy is so obviously p-a, why the other members don't step up and self-police. If you've got a good thing going with that band, and the others feel the same way, then they need to come together to fix things. Maybe stepping way back will make that clear. Most people don't feel the need to step forward to fix things until the person who so obviously was good at it, isn't doing it anymore.

But yeah, like others have said, life's too short. I'm 59, gainfully employed, and looking for joy through music, not livelihood, so my tolerance for bovine excrement has reached an all-time low.