Pay to play, revisted...

[bigfatbass]

To the comments that playing originals nets you no money I would say that is correct if you are playing originals that do not appeal to a bar crowd. For 200 nights a year, for a decade, I've played with the same original band, in the same region, and for a living. We play roots/blues/soul/funk/zydeco and bunch of other styles, and we can easily fill a 4 hour gig with our own material, and not get a complaint from even the biggest blues weenie.

If you are playing shoe gazer rock, it doesn't move beer for a club, regardless of the size of your crowd. This is an unfortunate result of the drinking age being set nationwide at 21.

A mediocre cover band that plays for cheap/free, but still puts bodies in the bar and beers in the hands, is a rare thing. Those bands work as much as they like, and it is as effortless as it sounds. Play a bunch of other peoples stuff with a little bit of juice and you can work 3 nights a week forever. Take that exact same mediocre band and have them NOT be a draw, and watch how fast they have no gigs. You can be in a lame-ish band and still work if you have friends who buy drinks, but the minute that crowd of revelers stops showing up, you can be sure the club will remember to leave you off their calendar.

The other end of the matrix is original bands that may be spectacularly good, but don't play music that sells beer. If you can't sell beer, then you have to sell tickets. But, how do you get people to buy tickets if no one ever gets to hear you play? Welcome to the y2k+ music biz!


In today's market, the only real way to effect your income is to be good enough to make people want to buy discs/shwag, or good enough that people will pay a larger cover, or even buy tickets to your shows in advance. That second one is near impossible to do for a regional touring band because you are playing someplace for no cover once or twice a week somewhere nearby.

There is a market for the 5 piece hobby band that will plod through the hits of the day for $300 on 3 or 4 Fridays a month, but ask yourself this: Is that where YOU would want to hang out?

That same 5 piece band with some polish and delivery might command twice that price, and have a waiting list for their avails.

More often than not, wherever you may fall in the food chain, chances are you're probably getting paid what your band is worth to your market.

 

[Staccato]

No, I don't mean the "sell tickets and we'll make a profit and give you a tiny bit" scam.

But...
Do a regular, "$50-60 per band member gig".
Pay the babysitter.
Pay for the wife's drinks - she's come out to listen and dance, and it's great to have her there digging the music.
Have a meal at the club/restaurant.

And *poof* you're in the red...

Compare this with taking her on a dinner, and a movie night out. When you factor in the babysitter, the dinner/movie is waaaay more expensive than taking her to the gig (which does pay something).

 

[b_carville]

Don't date women who like your band>

 

[Tony In Philly]

I once knew a guy who left his wife home with the kids and his girlfriend came to the gigs. I don't think he ever paid for her drinks either. I seem to remember the whole thing ending rather badly, too.

 

[john_g]

I see both sides of the argument, but for me personally, when I got back into playing with bands a few years ago after a long layoff, I approached it as a hobby. I have a day job AND my own business that covers the bills so its really about fun for me. If I was into motorcycle racing or some other hobby that would require buying alot of equipment, I wouldnt be expecting to make money doing it. But I do see what you are saying that if you add it up, how much are you really making per gig.

I am in a 6 piece cover band now, PLUS the damn sound guy, so it usually works out to be $60-$70 per man for us. The clubs we play offer on average $500-$600 per gig with some being more, but thats the average. We played a ton of places this year and now we are making our way back through to revisit some of them, and since we do have a good draw, the clubs are offering a little more, but not much. Thats just how it is around here.

And to think, when I was younger, had no money and played originals, all my gear combined was probably under $700-$800. So anytime we played I was making more money per gig than I probably am now just because my overhead was much lower.

 

[zachoff]

We're lucky if we get $100/show. That covers rent for our practice space. My daughter is 13 and babysits now, so that's nice not to have to pay for that. Drinks are somewhat covered my most venues around here, but just for me. I pay for my g/f's drinks too and that's usually $20-$40 depending how nutty she gets and in that case we're not paying to play... We're paying for booze.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

If you like what you do, thats what it costs.

yeah, that's just it. At that point any money you get is to help cover the cost of your good time. I did this for a while then decided that playing skynard/petty/etc tunes was *not* a good enough time to justify it.

 

[Bassdirty]

Get to the point where you get paid decent money or leave the wife at home.

+1
hope shes not reading this.

thats what I normally do, and smuggle in my own beer if its not included in our pay.

However...the wife is coming to friday nights gig tho....so...ya never know.

(that and we get at least 100 each....and cheap babysitting )

 

[Munjibunga]

If you don't count 'strings and all that' and you think your hobby is paying for itself, then I repesctfully suggest you'd benefit from math & logic lessons. Even a doctor is not making a profit until the student loans and earning value of the years spent studying and working for free are paid off, with interest.

As for how much people play for, it's really up to them and none of anyone else's business. Someone playing for free in an empty dive no more affects my earning capacity as a musician than it affects Nickelback's earning capacity when I play for an $8 cover a block away from their $80 per ticket arena gig.

Housewives and bar sluts have never put whores out of business. MLB players should not fear going broke due to Little League or Cops vs. Friefighters beer league games. If anything, the 'free' games are exactly what shows why the pros are worth what they're worth. Go get some free financial or legal advice, or consider a free heart transplant by an amteur, and soon you'll be lining up to pay a pro.

Agree or not, the important thing here is to understand that the problems some players imagine are caused them by guys playing for cheap/free is a very different topic than the math/logic issue which the OP and I cited, which reveals that even those complaining about cheap/free players are effectively paying a lot to play.
The numbers don't lie, if they're calculated honestly.

Whoa! A classic scathing diatribe.

 

[MatticusMania]

I dont often get paid for my gigs. I really couldn't care less, as others have said, its a labor of passion for me. Not that I turn down money. My fiancee comes to all of my gigs, so long as her band doesnt have one of their own. She usually pays for my drinks. I pay her back when we get home...

 

[lunarpollen]

This is why it's usually important to have some attractive merchandise to sell at gigs.

 

[xxfaux_punkxx]

after reading the 2 pages into this I kinda got tired of the bickering about who's right.

x = pay

y = travel expenses (gas, drinks, food, etc)

b = gear expenses (strings, picks,etc.)


so if g + b is less than the value of x then it's all good. where as if g + b is more then there's a problem.

or something along those lines.

 

[MatticusMania]

I only take one thing into consideration regarding gigs - Will I have fun? If yes, proceed. If not, decline. Anything else that comes from it is an added perk.

 

[Chebass88]

This is an interesting discussion. Our bandleader's wife has frequently complained that the bar we play most often never comps her drinks, considering that most of the patrons are her friends that come out to see us. Sure. They pay $400-$500 to us, with $100 bar tab, with meal included, and allow us to play originals and music we want to play. And she gripes over paying a couple bucks of that back in the form of some beers, etc.?

My gigging income is roughly 1.1% of my annual salary, and actually may be less. If I count the time for travel, rehearsal, setup, performance, breaking down, etc., I am earning around $5/hour. At least I'm still in the black!

Sure, I could earn more, but I'm also pursuing a full time job with a decent amount of travel, a masters in engineering, trying to be a competitive athlete, and I was just married a couple of weeks ago. It puts some cash in my pocket, which I use to go out for lunch or breakfast (on a weekend).

ian

 

[mboogiemanusa]

For 99.9% of us bassists - the whole band performance thing is a personal passion about the music. I like the challenge of seeing how good I can become as a bass player and just how good the band can become as a musical unit. Only the top handful of musicians make a living at this and most of them only for a short period of time. Any money paid at gigs is just icing on the cake because the experiences and camaraderie of being in a great band is priceless. It can be a ton of fun. If the wife wants to come to gigs and share the experience also ......great...don't mind paying for her drinks either. If she doesn't want to come .....that's fine also and we can share other passions together.

 

[Tampabass]

Lots of people are passionate about the work they do, or the art they create. That doesn't mean it's not deserving of financial compensation.

 

[oniman7]

Just the other day, I was invited to play bass for a band that kept losing bassists. I'm second oldest in the band at 15. The keyboardist/singer is my age, and the other two are in 8th grade. They're half decent and can hack their way through an hour and a half setlist and make most of it sound pretty good. The last gig they had payed $120 for that same hour and a half. $30 a person for an hour and a half breaks down to $20 an hour. They're booked almost bi-weekly up until next June. Some of these gigs do pay over $100, and some they play for free/tips (know the owners of the bar). I figure that if I play one paying gig a month at $30, in addition to my $25 a month for writing articles for the local newspaper, I'll have $55 a month for whatever GAS attack hits me, plus whatever else. Pedals, a mic to record some of my stuff with, etc. Just enough to feed the hobby. It's been said before, but this hobby literally pays for itself once you have the start up equipment. If I increase the number of events I play at, I get more money, to buy more fancy equipment . Not a bad trade for me, when I could be babysitting for for $5 an hour and have to watch screaming kids.


I know none of that probably sounds like a lot of money to anybody, but it's not a bad deal for me.

 

[mid_life_crisis]

I could be babysitting for for $5 an hour and have to watch screaming kids.

The thought of which is so horrifying that you stuttered when you typed it.
I have to say that I think you have the right attitude about the hobby.
You also have a distinct advantage in living at home and not having any expenses to meet or obligations to other people (wife, kids). Makes it a lot easier.

 

[big90sbasshorns]

There's true beauty in $1 dollar PBR nights!

 

[MrTAteMyBalls]

ha! for a dollar they can keep the PBR. =).