I think you're probably right on the second point - but the first was covered by the Costello press release quoted earlier.
So the others thought the arrangements would sound like a "3-legged donkey" without bass - i.e. not very good!
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Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...
- Thread starter damonsmith
- Start date
I think you're probably right on the second point - but the first was covered by the Costello press release quoted earlier.
So the others thought the arrangements would sound like a "3-legged donkey" without bass - i.e. not very good!
It wasn't a comment on her talent....unlike Kenny G she has some. Plain truth though is that without Bruce Allen (Loverboy, Bryan Adams) making her a star chances are her career would be about the same place as say Tierney Sutton or someone.
O.K., so on we go.
Phil you kill me, we've got to sit down for a beer one of these days and I'll do my best not to let it shoot out of my nose as we talk.
No, Diana Krall frequently finds herself disrespected by "serious jazz musicians". Why? I suspect it's because he's a woman, attractive and successful. She grew up studying and playing, had top teachers, put her work it, was mentored by Ray Brown, went to Berklee I believe. She was generally on the right track, but did something unforgivable along the lines. I certainly understand that not everyone's music reaches everyone, but she is considered somewhat of a interloper amongst certain circles of "real jazz musicians" now. Can't just say "yeah, that's not my thing" and let it go. That sort of thing happens in punk rock and jazz, commerical success is an unforgivable sin. Do Opera guys hate the 3 tenors?
I don't know much about Lee Konitz, except that Birth of the Cool is a really nice album. I also have him with Brad Meldau and Charlie Haden on something. However, every time he's mentioned around a local trumpet player I know he cringes and says, he just can't get over how badly he saw him treat the local rhythm section that he hired on a tour through Seattle. I won't say who the rhythm section was, but they are our top guys. Guys who no one complains about playing with. My friend said he was just a total jerk to them on stage to the point that it made the audience uncomfortable. So, I've been biting my tounge through this story thinking...we just don't know what happened, except that on one particular night, one particular assembly of musicians chose not to get along with each other. Enter a club owner (we all know about them) and some "jazz insiders" who were or were not present to fan the flames and write about it and sides are being taken now.
I'm glad that I'm not famous.
What will I do for a gig? Well, last year, I was on a work binge. I played some weddings that I wish I hadn't and some of them sucked the soul right out of me. This year, I'm turning all of those down. Next year, I'll probably look for a middle ground. I'm also dealing with an injury and some playing issues now that are most likely a combination of playing too much for where I was last year, having some technique issues and starting to put myself in situations where touching my bass was not always associated with something pleasurable to me.
I concluded 2006 with a gig that I should not have played. Way too many and not good musicians, but most importantly musicians who didn't understand how to treat other musicians or behave professionally. I don't want to be specific because there are some TB'ers who will know who I'm talking about. I was asked to do this thing and tried as politely and passive aggressively as possible to avoid it. I said that I didn't think I'd be able to play, but that I'd come out and have a drink and support them, then I agreed to sit in for a few songs, the day of, the bassist who was supposed to be on the gig dropped out and they said "well, since Troy was going to play anyway, he'll just cover." I was furious, it was as bad as I feared it might be, I didn't get a proper break and ate bad takeout at 2am on the way home and threw up at the noon wedding I played the next day, my hands were hamburger and my reputation was probably tarnished somewhat with musicians who I do respect here in town.
So, why did I play it? Because I realized that I put myself in that situation by not saying "no". This year, I don't make that mistake. I say, very clearly "Thank you, no." If pushed, I say "I'm not available to do that gig." If pushed further I say simply "no." That way, it's clear.
So, I respect everyone's right to do so. On any level from mine to Mr. Peacock's, we have to make these decisions and owe it to ourselves to make the ones that our right for us. I don't need for people to always understand my decisions and I suspect that Mr. Peacock doesn't feel the need to explain his to me either, but I also suspect that we both would rather avoid being put (let's be honest and say "putting ourselves") in those situations in the future.
I also suspect that Elvis Costello regrets that it happened. It's got to be tough to be in the 1% of the 1% of people who make it professionally as a musician on a non-struggling level. Span decades without relying on "nostalgia tours" or Indian Reservation Casinos and still realize that you'll never be accepted in certain circles as a real musician.
By the way, did you hear that Lindsey Lohan got arrested again after only 11 days out of rehab?
Phil you kill me, we've got to sit down for a beer one of these days and I'll do my best not to let it shoot out of my nose as we talk.
No, Diana Krall frequently finds herself disrespected by "serious jazz musicians". Why? I suspect it's because he's a woman, attractive and successful. She grew up studying and playing, had top teachers, put her work it, was mentored by Ray Brown, went to Berklee I believe. She was generally on the right track, but did something unforgivable along the lines. I certainly understand that not everyone's music reaches everyone, but she is considered somewhat of a interloper amongst certain circles of "real jazz musicians" now. Can't just say "yeah, that's not my thing" and let it go. That sort of thing happens in punk rock and jazz, commerical success is an unforgivable sin. Do Opera guys hate the 3 tenors?
I don't know much about Lee Konitz, except that Birth of the Cool is a really nice album. I also have him with Brad Meldau and Charlie Haden on something. However, every time he's mentioned around a local trumpet player I know he cringes and says, he just can't get over how badly he saw him treat the local rhythm section that he hired on a tour through Seattle. I won't say who the rhythm section was, but they are our top guys. Guys who no one complains about playing with. My friend said he was just a total jerk to them on stage to the point that it made the audience uncomfortable. So, I've been biting my tounge through this story thinking...we just don't know what happened, except that on one particular night, one particular assembly of musicians chose not to get along with each other. Enter a club owner (we all know about them) and some "jazz insiders" who were or were not present to fan the flames and write about it and sides are being taken now.
I'm glad that I'm not famous.
What will I do for a gig? Well, last year, I was on a work binge. I played some weddings that I wish I hadn't and some of them sucked the soul right out of me. This year, I'm turning all of those down. Next year, I'll probably look for a middle ground. I'm also dealing with an injury and some playing issues now that are most likely a combination of playing too much for where I was last year, having some technique issues and starting to put myself in situations where touching my bass was not always associated with something pleasurable to me.
I concluded 2006 with a gig that I should not have played. Way too many and not good musicians, but most importantly musicians who didn't understand how to treat other musicians or behave professionally. I don't want to be specific because there are some TB'ers who will know who I'm talking about. I was asked to do this thing and tried as politely and passive aggressively as possible to avoid it. I said that I didn't think I'd be able to play, but that I'd come out and have a drink and support them, then I agreed to sit in for a few songs, the day of, the bassist who was supposed to be on the gig dropped out and they said "well, since Troy was going to play anyway, he'll just cover." I was furious, it was as bad as I feared it might be, I didn't get a proper break and ate bad takeout at 2am on the way home and threw up at the noon wedding I played the next day, my hands were hamburger and my reputation was probably tarnished somewhat with musicians who I do respect here in town.
So, why did I play it? Because I realized that I put myself in that situation by not saying "no". This year, I don't make that mistake. I say, very clearly "Thank you, no." If pushed, I say "I'm not available to do that gig." If pushed further I say simply "no." That way, it's clear.
So, I respect everyone's right to do so. On any level from mine to Mr. Peacock's, we have to make these decisions and owe it to ourselves to make the ones that our right for us. I don't need for people to always understand my decisions and I suspect that Mr. Peacock doesn't feel the need to explain his to me either, but I also suspect that we both would rather avoid being put (let's be honest and say "putting ourselves") in those situations in the future.
I also suspect that Elvis Costello regrets that it happened. It's got to be tough to be in the 1% of the 1% of people who make it professionally as a musician on a non-struggling level. Span decades without relying on "nostalgia tours" or Indian Reservation Casinos and still realize that you'll never be accepted in certain circles as a real musician.
By the way, did you hear that Lindsey Lohan got arrested again after only 11 days out of rehab?
And if you're on the gig because the leader called you to do it that's exactly what you are and it might be nice if he did but he's not really obliged to consult you. Don't like it? Be the leader.
There's a huge difference between doing a couple of songs with a singer sitting in and a whole night or longer with a player you don't want to play with or be around.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Marrying Elvis Costello and making an album with him?
Who someone marries is inconsequential. As for that album. I don't own a copy of Bitches Brew, because it's not my thing, but it didn't make me throw away Relaxin', Steamin', Workin', Cookin'...
Besides, noses were being turned down at Diana Krall before she married Elvis Costello.
Tierney Sutton is great. I love her. Your point is made (Someone's) that there are a lot of people equally good or maybe better who haven't enjoyed the same success. I think that about local people all over the place when I travel. there are some amazing musicians in the world who have not had the fortune that some others have. It's true.
But, I don't really blame people for being successful either. Especially if they've put their work in, are sincere about it and handle it as best they can.
I don't disrespect her at all. Now that she sings in tune most of the time I kinda like what she does in an easy listening kinda way. She's a kid from Nanaimo, BC and I've followed her career from the start....a bass player friend of mine worked regularly (and may still) with her dad. She didn't do anything but be talented (but no more than a lot of people) and win the lottery being the one who got picked by a star-maker to be a star.
Not sure where this debate is going now - maybe we should ask whether we will ever see Peacock playing with Krall!!
Confession time:
During the last Diana Krall concert I went to I spent the
whole time checking out her shoes. She had the nicest
pair of Mamabologna Blotnick's I have ever eyeballed. I saw
them later in Bored and Taylor for 600 bones. Holy Macaroni,
Jones!
She has the sexiest feet on Beale Street.
Feet I'd like to meet. Schweet!
Too bad she's so effete.
During the last Diana Krall concert I went to I spent the
whole time checking out her shoes. She had the nicest
pair of Mamabologna Blotnick's I have ever eyeballed. I saw
them later in Bored and Taylor for 600 bones. Holy Macaroni,
Jones!
She has the sexiest feet on Beale Street.
Feet I'd like to meet. Schweet!
Too bad she's so effete.
Not sure where this debate is going now - maybe we should ask whether we will ever see Peacock playing with Krall!!
...or when Peacock is going to invest in some nice shoes.
That might what you do, I don't play music I am 100% behind.
In my situation there is normally very little money, so it only about the music, so the musical sitaution has to right or I will stay home. In Peacock's situation it is a safe bet he doesn't need the money so it is only about the music. That is where I relate to him.
A couple other points:
I don't know the names of Costello's songs, nor do I know every single standard - but it sounds like it was a Costello original they were going to do. If that is the case it adds another layer. He could have at least just picked a standard to fit with that situation better.
Another point is that Peacock has held out for 40 years of just doing the music he loves, I don't think we can expect him to start compromising his ideals at his age friends birthday or not (although Konitz's real birthday was a few weeks prior).
Sho 'nuff. But ah doesn't make the forum rulez down heah...ah just IMPLEMENTS 'em. Accordin' t' Paul's rules, ya'll kin **** all over yer posts, call each other mother******s 'n what not all the day long as long as ye' mask that **** completely. Y'heah?
