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Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

Do you think that maybe Konitz grew to actually like the kid who was tutoring him in algebra, so he invited him to sit at his lunch table thinking his friends would be cool about it. But they were all like "I think you're lost geek! Check out the pocket protector on the virgin!" and Konitz was all "Uh, yeah...I'll see you later, but if I don't say 'hi' to you in the hall, you'll understand, right?..."
 
In a sort of a Wendy/Walter Carlos sort of way?

Was he originally Dana Krall or Don?

I keep hearing this "Diana Krall looks like a dude" thing on the net. I guess I just don't see it.

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Maybe guys here in the deep backwoods of KY just look different?:confused:

To me, she reminds me of Allison Kraus in that she seems uncomfortable trying to live up to the "sexy/glam" image that the suits are trying to force on every single woman in the business who doesn't resemble a Medusa. I'd be quicker to dis the suits.


PERRY'S TROY K said:
No, Diana Krall frequently finds herself disrespected by "serious jazz musicians". Why? I suspect it's because he's a woman, attractive and successful. She grew up studying and playing, had top teachers, put her work it, was mentored by Ray Brown, went to Berklee I believe. She was generally on the right track, but did something unforgivable along the lines. I certainly understand that not everyone's music reaches everyone, but she is considered somewhat of a interloper amongst certain circles of "real jazz musicians" now. Can't just say "yeah, that's not my thing" and let it go. That sort of thing happens in punk rock and jazz, commerical success is an unforgivable sin. Do Opera guys hate the 3 tenors?

I'm glad that I'm not famous.

I'm with you, bro. She's not Billie or Bonnie, but she's good at what she does, she plays piano well, and has helped - along with many others - to bring jazz standards back to the attention of a generation which seems determined to forget all about them in favor of bodybuilding porn star wannabes whose only goal seems to be to shake it while they talk over computer programmed riffs stolen from old hit songs. I say good on Diana for doing what she does. I love "Love Scenes" with the drummerless trio setting with McBride and Malone. The other stuff with the big band and orchestral stuff isn't my thing, so I don't listen to it. But like you, I don't really get all the hating on her either.

EDIT: and while we're (sort of) on the subject, I'm not into Costello's music, but a couple of my siblings are. I'd play with him in this situation without a second thought...which is simply a statement about lil' ole me and is not meant to impugn Peacock in any way. He's left his mark on me and thousands of others musically, and nothing can touch that, nor should it. Parts of his playing I love, so I emulate them. Other parts don't soeak to me as much, so I leave them out. As far as what kind of person he may or may not be, I couldn't really care less. If people are obtuse enough to think that his actions are a reflection of the attitudes of jazz musicians as a whole, then they've got much more serious problems than I care to waste my time worrying about. Life is too short!
 
He wears shoes?! I thought he just floated above the ground.

That's no reason to thumb his nose at fashion.


Thank Cod I had a few napkins close
when the coffee shot out my nose!

The desk is a bit of a mess,
I confess.


What SHE

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See's in HIM

ElvisCostello2.jpg


I don't grok.
 
Do you think that maybe Konitz grew to actually like the kid who was tutoring him in algebra, so he invited him to sit at his lunch table thinking his friends would be cool about it. But they were all like "I think you're lost geek! Check out the pocket protector on the virgin!" and Konitz was all "Uh, yeah...I'll see you later, but if I don't say 'hi' to you in the hall, you'll understand, right?..."

These metaphors can go both ways: do you think Gerhard Richter would paint a rainbow happy birthday banner for Sigmar Polke?

There clearly two sides. Obviously, I take the elitest side, I have never pretended not be one, I play esoteric music, that is the music I love, I can't help it.
I still have a lot of respect for they players on here who take the working class perspective, mainly because playing bass is one of my only marketable skills I have and I'd certainly play a wedding in finger painted pants before I starve like Uncle Toad, I am not into Starving.

Also, I am only defending Peacock's position. I'd Probably play with Costello. I had decent experiences playing with rockstars like Richard Thompson and Jim O'rourke. I had a funny experience with Tom Waits, where we just couldn't get a set together in the short rehearsal time and had to bag it - at least Costello brought charts, Waits brought a shopping bag of his own cds and boombox!
Nice guy, though.
 
I keep hearing this "Diana Krall looks like a dude" thing on the net vibe. I guess I just don't see it.

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Well, sometimes you need to look at it from all angles, to get a new perspective, a fresh view, if you will. Personally, I just don't give a hoot about some boob who comes on the 'net with his big guns, flexin' his pecs, and talkin' trash about a nice wholesome girl like DK.
 
Damon, I can accept all of that and admire your conviction. I have to come back at one assumption you're implying in there.

Some of us who play more traditional music do it in fact because we love it and do consider it high art.

A trumpet player who I love likes to say "no one will every play hard bop better than Clifford Brown, so why do it?" and my answer is "Because I love playing hard bop".

You can create with any medium.
 
Damon, I can accept all of that and admire your conviction. I have to come back at one assumption you're implying in there.

Some of us who play more traditional music do it in fact because we love it and do consider it high art.

A trumpet player who I love likes to say "no one will every play hard bop better than Clifford Brown, so why do it?" and my answer is "Because I love playing hard bop".

You can create with any medium.

I think you can take the position of the artist in any situations, there are also tons of middle grounds.
I love a lot of that music, jazz and classical are the foundations of my music, so I have a healthy respect for it.
There are musicians of most Genres I respect. If you look at my many other posts on talkbass you can see that I love staight jazz. For example I hold Red Mitchell and Sonny Dallas in high a regard as any new music bassist.
 
From this perspective I agree; we should be able to say yes or no to a gig without further explanation. If he didn't know about it in advance, I can see why he'd be upset.

Anyone is free to turn down a gig, but once you accept you take some responsibility to the leader who hired you, the club paying you, and the folks paying to see you. He was at the club ON THE NIGHT OF THE GIG, at that point you shut up and play.
 
Anyone is free to turn down a gig, but once you accept you take some responsibility to the leader who hired you, the club paying you, and the folks paying to see you. He was at the club ON THE NIGHT OF THE GIG, at that point you shut up and play.

I take your point I still see a difference between artistic and working gigs. I also think it only applys when job you were hired for is the exact one you get asked to do the night of, or week of.
At no point is there any evidence Peacock agreed to play with Costello.

If the leader tells you to get a mop and mop the bathroom do you do it?
I remember a gig where the owner of the place tried to get the band to sweep the joint after - it didn't happen.
 
Anyone is free to turn down a gig, but once you accept you take some responsibility to the leader who hired you, the club paying you, and the folks paying to see you. He was at the club ON THE NIGHT OF THE GIG, at that point you shut up and play.

I agree. I said he has a right to be upset; I didn't mean to imply I thought it was OK to not play. I still wonder if he was upset with EC, the venue or Lee Konitz, or any combination thereof.
 
It would seem that Gary had his reasons for not wanting to play with Elvis. To me these reasons would have to be pretty important to draw the line in the sand that way. Ed Fuqua posted to a link to some "racist" stuff that Elvis said and perhaps this is the mitigating factor in Gary's behavior.

If I had knowledge of that or other "racist" speech or actions by Elvis, I wouldn't play with him either out of principle.
 
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1. you guys all looked at the date on this right? this happened in 2003, and you guys are talking about this as new news...

2. only two people on the planet know how it actually went down, and so far, neither of them have posted in this thread.

3. EC posted a very polite and respectful post about it, and he blames the venue... i think if EC is over it.. (i guaranF***INtee EC has prolly totally forgotten this incident FOUR years later)...

then shouldn't we drop this topic, and talk about something a little more "up to date"?

or is this the little old lady quilting bass talk?...

$.02
 
1. you guys all looked at the date on this right? this happened in 2003, and you guys are talking about this as new news...

2. only two people on the planet know how it actually went down, and so far, neither of them have posted in this thread.

3. EC posted a very polite and respectful post about it, and he blames the venue... i think if EC is over it.. (i guaranF***INtee EC has prolly totally forgotten this incident FOUR years later)...

then shouldn't we drop this topic, and talk about something a little more "up to date"?

or is this the little old lady quilting bass talk?...

$.02

I pointed out it was old when I posted. If you don't like "little old lady quilting bass talk", talk bass is not for you! I thought the article was certainly deserving of some.

Dave, how about some background on that Richter jpeg, obviously it isn't rainbow but...
 
It would seem that Gary had his reasons for not wanting to play with Elvis. To me these reasons would have to be pretty important to draw the line in the sand that way. Ed Fuqua posted to a link to some "racist" stuff that Elvis said and perhaps this is the mitigating factor in Gary's behavior.

If I had knowledge of that or other "racist" speech or actions by Elvis, I wouldn't play with him either out of principle.

Armed with ONLY that knowledge I would tend to agree with you. But I know EC's lyrics pretty well, and they are pretty provocative, as are some of the things he says in conversation, interviews, etc. But whenever those "provocative" lyrics are used, they are used for a specific purpose -- usually DRIPPING with irony and sarcasm. For example, there's a line in 'Oliver's Army' that says "All it takes is one itchy trigger, One more widow, one less white ******"... the statement by itself is obviously offensive, but the song refers to Oliver Cromwell's "New Model Army" -- and is basically anti-military. Many poor Irish joined the army because they would starve otherwise. The "white ******" here was a common epithet used by some English to describe the Irish at one time. It says nothing about EC's feelings toward African descendants.

Take also a line from another tune, "blame it all upon the darkies." Obviously pretty offensive again. But it's used in the context of quoting some anonymous but bigoted dirtbag. Lyrics are debatable always, because even if you read them end to end, you don't always get the whole meaning, like you would in a novel for instance. You don't hear anybody screaming about racist remarks in Earnest Hemmingway books but ever read em? hooh boy. It's all in the context.

But if you heard Elvis's explanation of that episode, he claims that he said the most offensive thing he could think of just to end the conversation, which he thought was nauseating. Now, you may not agree that it was the right thing to do, but it's something I might do myself. Of course, if I was a famous person, I'd probably think twice, knowing that I'd be quoted out of context, but then again, he was also pissed drunk.

There's always more to the story.

I'd certainly like to hear more from Peacock about it.
 
Dave, how about some background on that Richter jpeg, obviously it isn't rainbow but...

I made it, duh. Slow morning at the day gig, so, maybe I should say, me and the dog made it.

You know what I wish I'd seen - on the subject of (free) jazz / pop crossover - William Parker playing with The Roots. Apparently they did a few shows some years ago, but I don't know of any recordings.