Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

[Marc Piane]

So this debate has a subthread regarding how we each view our role as bass player and how to act professional. I like it.

Bottom line for me... If I take a gig I am all smiles even if the music sucks. (I'm not talking about sweeping floors, that's a different story.) I took the gig and the last thing I want is a rep for having a bad attitude. The next time I get a call I'll either voice my concern or not take the gig again. To me that is acting in a professional manner. I expect the same from sidemen I hire. If someone gets lippy I don't say anything, let it go, and don't call them again.

I know some great players that don't work as much as they could because of the 'tude.

 

[christ andronis]

Not this bass butt sailor man.

It's PeaCock all the way...

...Don't you just love the way he swings.

...oh jeez...and I'm Greek!!!!

 

[damonsmith]

So Mike and Marc - You don't see a difference at that level? I am going to guess that that group is more of a collective than it seems.

When I put together a group I know there are some things certain musicians will and won't do. I also lay out the terms explicitly and expect the same to be done for me.
I have had a fair amount of dealing with "star" players in the free music world and I'll tell you that kind of thing would never fly.

In my eyes the breach of professionality lies with with Konitz and the club - not Peacock.

 

[christ andronis]

So Mike and Marc - You don't see a difference at that level? I am going to guess that that group is more of a collective than it seems.

When I put together a group I know there are some things certain musicians will and won't do. I also lay out the terms explicitly and expect the same to be done for me.
I have had a fair amount of dealing with "star" players in the free music world and I'll tell you that kind of thing would never fly.

In my eyes the breach of professionality lies with with Konitz and the club - not Peacock.

Were Konitz and Peacocock already friends or was he hired cause of his rep? Seems to me that, out of friendship, this was the sort of thing you let pass, do the gig and have a little talk with your buddy afterwards. Personally, I think GP needs to check on his meditation dosage, it didn't appear to be working. BUT, like many have said, we really don't know what transpired between them that night. Given EC's history, I don't see him giving GP a hard time at all, in fact if I had to guess, he probably has(had?) great respect for him.

 

[Michael Case]

So Mike and Marc - You don't see a difference at that level? I am going to guess that that group is more of a collective than it seems.

When I put together a group I know there are some things certain musicians will and won't do. I also lay out the terms explicitly and expect the same to be done for me.
I have had a fair amount of dealing with "star" players in the free music world and I'll tell you that kind of thing would never fly.

In my eyes the breach of professionality lies with with Konitz and the club - not Peacock.

I think on all levels one needs to be professional. I've heard stories from other prominent players that push one's professionalism and they smiled, played the gig, and dealt with the problems afterwards. I've always been taught once you accept a gig you have a responsibility to fulfill. No matter how great a player you are, there's always someone else ready to smile and make music in your place.

 

[damonsmith]

The biggest point people are missing here is part of being the kind of artist Peacock is has to do with making clear decisions about what your work is - and isn't. whether or not you respect that decision or not doesn't matter - Gary Peacock does what he does.

I have a lot of his records, and what he does is very clear to me. There is nothing in his discography to indicate he would be interested in working with ANY pop musician. Outside of the Standards trio he generally does free improvisation or collaborative projects with each musician having an equal role.

Also, just personally and I know it might upset people, but it is just part of how I think - I am very selective about what material I will play and learn. It might be some neurotic quirk but I don't want to "take in" just anything. Judging from Peacock's work I would not be surprised if he had a similar concept.
I guess I just feel like most of the people in this and the AAJ discussion really don't understand his side, and also most would have liked to play with EC.

 

[damonsmith]

I've always been taught once you accept a gig you have a responsibility to fulfill.

-To which I would add as long as that gig stays that gig. Extra responsibilites requires negotiation.
For example, I will play a door gig of collectively improvised music in town- sometimes people have assumed I would play their written music for a door gig. No way. I want a reasonable fee for my time to work on another persons music (unless it is a great master I am going to learn from).
Expecting Peacock to learn two of Costello's pieces is not the same as playing Lee Konitz quartet music.

 

[Michael Case]

I see the point you're making, but if one can perform Lee's music I can't see how challenging EC's music would be.

This topic just rubs me the wrong way, GP's behavior seems a bit "rock star" like to me.

 

[damonsmith]

I see the point you're making, but if one can perform Lee's music I can't see how challenging EC's music would be.

This topic just rubs me the wrong way, GP's behavior seems a bit "rock star" like to me.

Well, he is a star! He did the work and paid his dues, and instead of "only green M & Ms" a Limo and a hooker - he just doesn't want (as opposed to can't) to play EC's music.

 

[Marc Piane]

I think on all levels one needs to be professional. I've heard stories from other prominent players that push one's professionalism and they smiled, played the gig, and dealt with the problems afterwards. I've always been taught once you accept a gig you have a responsibility to fulfill. No matter how great a player you are, there's always someone else ready to smile and make music in your place.

+1


In response to Damon's last post. I definitely see where you are coming from. The problem I see with this is that often guys (and I'm not saying Peacock per se) bring their 'tude on stage and the music suffers. To me music is supposed to be a joyous, cathartic experience. Bad vibes stand in the way of that.

I take issue with the idea that an 'artist' is somehow different (better?) than any other musician. I do lots of sideman stuff and I have worked very hard at bringing my 'thing' to every gig. Drew Gress is my model in this. He does it all from free to straght ahead. You always know who is on bass. I have heard to many people (and I'm not saying you Damon) hide behind the label 'artist'. We are all 'artists'. We all try to bring it every time we play. There is no distinction.

A gig's a gig. Do your best, say thanks and go home.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Maybe we should all take a moment and silently praise the late Art Davis, who played jazz and symphonic music at its absolute highest level, and still somehow found it okay to grace the recordings of people like John Denver and Bob Dylan.

 

[damonsmith]

A gig's a gig. Do your best, say thanks and go home.

This is where the difference lies. I totally respect guys like you and mike, and I love Drew Gress' playing. Your attitude is what keeps you working.
I still think you guys need to try to see the other side a little better.
For me a gig is not a gig. I don't have that kind of constitution.
I just can't get into material I don't care for.
There is nothing I like more than playing music I love and I'd rather do nearly anything than play music my heart isn't in.

Thankfully, I love teaching. I am also a huge bass geek and love learning everything about it. I want my choices to be just that - choices.

Another thing sure to piss people off is I am not what you would call a music lover - I don't care for most music and what I love I really love.
That is just how I am wired.

 

[Michael Case]

Maybe we should all take a moment and silently praise the late Art Davis, who played jazz and symphonic music at its absolute highest level, and still somehow found it okay to grace the recordings of people like John Denver and Bob Dylan.

+1 That's a true artist and professional!

This thread is one of the better one's I've seen in a while. No bloodshed, not too many flames, not much need for rule enforcement.

 

[Uncletoad]

Well, he is a star!

Star, I think not. His notoriety is minuscule compared to Elvis Costello. Outside of a portion of jazz fans he is unknown.

If Peacock walked down a main street in my town he'd pass unnoticed. Elvis Costello wouldn't make it 6 blocks.

Remember who's names were on the marquee. How many patrons are going to ask for their money back if Peacock's a no show?

That doesn't mean he should do the gig though. In my mind he's earned the right to do what he wants.

Promoter should really get bitch slapped.

 

[Michael Case]

This is where the difference lies. I totally respect guys like you and mike, and I love Drew Gress' playing. Your attitude is what keeps you working.
I still think you guys need to try to see the other side a little better.
For me a gig is not a gig. I don't have that kind of constitution.
I just can't get into material I don't care for.
There is nothing I like more than playing music I love and I'd rather do nearly anything than play music my heart isn't in.

Thankfully, I love teaching. I am also a huge bass geek and love learning everything about it. I want my choices to be just that - choices.

Another thing sure to piss people off is I am not what you would call a music lover - I don't care for most music and what I love I really love.
That is just how I am wired.

I see where you're coming from. I've been pretty lucky lately and have only had gigs with players I like and music that moves me. In the past though, I ate a great deal of crap playing with musicians I can't stand working with. In the past I felt similar to you Damon, but I caught on that if I wanted a gig to be as good as it can be I had to be the best person I could. That lesson helped me get through many a terrible gig and even got me to a point where I'm playing better gigs now.

To me music is a gift, and I need to respect that gift. I try to uplift the people I play with and the people who come (or forced) to listen to me play. When I play true to myself, I communicate the most to the people I play with and the audience. Nothing makes me happier.

GP may be a "star" in this music we call jazz, but the term "rock star" in my book is not good. I remember in my old days (New York Hardcore scene) cats who earned that title were more of a joke.

 

[damonsmith]

+1 That's a true artist and professional!

This thread is one of the better one's I've seen in a while. No bloodshed, not too many flames, not much need for rule enforcement.

Mainly because he AGREED to those gigs. I think my point is that each artist decides what can and cannot be a part of their art not that I am making judgements for others about what is an isn't.
Sucks about Art Davis I saw him once. He was incredible, It was John Tchicai band doing Johnny Dyani songs.

 

[Michael Case]

I guess the part I don't get is this. How bad could it have been to just play the EC tunes?

We cannot answer that for Peacock, but Damon, what about this is so offensive to you?

 

[jallenbass]

Has anyone else taken a gig that they thought was going to suck only to have it turn out to be really enjoyable? I know I have. There are times when anyone's opinion of a gig is going to be incorrect.

 

[damonsmith]

I guess the part I don't get is this. How bad could it have been to just play the EC tunes?

We cannot answer that for Peacock, but Damon, what about this is so offensive to you?

Two things, going on three:

1. I don't feel people understand where Peacock is coming from in terms of not wanting to do it and not doing it.
I also don't feel like they respect his position as a great artist who has more than paid his dues.

2. It really works my nerves when people change the conditions of the gig after the fact.

3. I don't know the particulars behind it but I don't like it when "composers" use situations to get their music played by musicians who they would either wouldn't do it otherwise or wouldn't do it for that fee, especially when it requires an improvisor to lend their music to the process. Like I said we don't know in this case - Konitz could have suggested EC's music.

 

[Michael Case]

I do respect Peacock as an artist, I respect all players who are able to rise to his level. We all know that it's extremely hard to do so. Plenty of people can make music on that level and have payed plenty of dues, but still struggle everyday.

With that said, I believe that anyone who makes it to that level should show a little gratitude for all the gifts they have. And even when one has payed all their dues and is on top they still have to take it on the chin once in a while. Everyone eats crap every now and then, some people are lucky enough to actually eat crap in a job that they love to do. Tell your sanitation worker about this story and see how he feels, I'm sure he'd rather have GP's work crap then his own.