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Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

#161
I'm not sure why this is turning into a slam on GPs bass playing. Like it or not he is in a place that we all dream to be in someday. There is no doubt he is an important figure in bass history. People are always posting things like Miles was a talentless hack (actually in one thread), or Coltrane always played sharp (actually in another), Haden's technique is bad (in another), Bromberg play with VanHalen chops (in another), or Peacock (well, I assume you are reading this thread).

I'd suggest we not slam the people that have shaped jazz in such a huge way. Not contructive IMHO.

It is easy to talk tough on the other side of a computer screen.
 
#162
musicman5string said:
There are numerous example recorded of Peacock's less than great intonation. But I cannot understand why on earth he was ok with putting out his DVD as is. He plays the C scale about 7 times, and each time it is out of tune.
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I must say that I have mentioned before how I was most disappointed when I bought his instructional video....:confused:

So I am in no position to criticise somebody of his stature - but I got very little out of this, compared to others - say, Rufus Reid's which is full of great material, tips and ideas...:)
 
#166
I come back to...I think we're one step ahead of US Weekly with the "celeb scandals" here.

I think motives in this tread span from wanting to think of ourselves as close allies with some of these people to resenting their success as we struggle.

They're just working musicians. They're just people. They're just doing their thing. Having their relationships. Fortunately and unfortunately for them, they're somewhat famous so articles get written, people speculate and scandal is born.

I work hard at my relationships, musical and otherwise. I think I'm generally a good friend and good guy to work with, but sometimes my friends and I have a disagreement. Sometimes, one of us says or does something stupid. Sometimes, we clear the air later, sometimes immediately, sometimes not at all.

It would be so much harder if everyone else was in our business, taking sides, throwing darts at each of our characters, skills, orthadonture, whether we married someone we deserve, whether we deserve what we have accomplished...

I haven't been able to stay out of this thread for some reason, but it's still bothering me. Although I have to admit that it's had it's highlights. We all took a collective gasp when the word ****sucker was used and I'll have to admit that I admired the tempered response. Must have been the kittens.

We haven't had a good punch up on TBDB for a long time. There was the time recently when I attracted the attention of some TBBGers, but even I wanted to kick my own ass over that one.
 
#167
I bring this up because this thread has brought up interesting questions.

What is professionalism?

Where do we (each) draw the line when the expectations at a gig get changed?

Is our perception of a certain artist changed when we know a bit more about his attitude and personality?

Are there 'levels' of art?

etc, etc, etc

Changing the mood of the thread by slamming on GP doesn't seem productive. We can have a heated debate without taking pot shots a folks that are not even part of the discussion. My .02
 
#172
Wilbyman said:
...doesn't the whole thing come down to whether or not Peacock knew what the arrangement was before he got there?
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I've been out at the swimmin' hole for a spell -- just catching up on this thang....

I think the whole thing comes down to Gary being willing to walk off the stand with a whole room full of paid people out there. And over what? A few minutes of pop tunes? For that he's willing to strand Lee and Elvis and everyone else.

I think there must have been some bad blood generated earlier in the day. Somebody said something and it stewed. (I've heard stories about Elvis from folks who toured with him as an opener -- let's say I believe it's possible somebody could get steamed at him.) If that's the case -- well, blood boils sometimes. Gary's reaction is crappy but understandable in that case.

But if Peacock had this little hissy fit over a few minutes of pop tune playing? Because of his art, his commitment, his stance? He could have just said "thanks but no thanks" and left the stand but instead we get theatrics, a bad scene, threats of violence, an indignity served to Lee. None of it necessary and all of it caused by Gary's reaction to the (possible) screwups of others -- others he agreed to work with and bring the gig home.

If your artistic nerves are that thin and your standards that high, perhaps you'd had better think twice -- maybe ten times -- before you take any kind of paying gig at all. It's sad to say it, but no artist is owed any kind of living. You want money? Get out and earn it. You wanna act like that? You'd better be happy you made a pile playing with Kif.

Lest I get nailed with the "you don't understand artists like Gary" thing: that's B.S. I know all kinds of artists from all kinds of art with all kinds of attitudes. For thirty years now. The grumpy ones are better off working on their own.
 
#173
musicman5string said:
Are you speaking to me? If so, be clear about it. I'm not taking "potshots" at GP or slamming him.
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Yes. Your post was one of the ones I was responding to.

Honestly I wasn't keeping track. Just now I had to go back and reread some of this thread to see who said what. On my initial reading I didn't spend time scrutinizing the posts that I saw as negative and instead moved to the ones I found constructive to what I saw as the important points being discussed.
 
#174
I think Gary Peacock's intonation normally sounds like Gary Peacock's intonation.
Same goes for Alan Silva, Peter Kowald, William Parker, Barre Phillips, Jackie McClean, etc.
Also, as I have said before a musician who takes chances with complex, improvised lines has to be judged differently that one who hides in half position.
There is not a bass player alive, much less in this discussion with flawless intonation. It doesn't mean we don't try.
 
#175
Damon Rondeau said:
And over what? A few minutes of pop tunes? For that he's willing to strand Lee and Elvis and everyone else.
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The biggest problem with this thread is people just can't grasp what a big deal that can be for some people.
It is like expecting your vegitarian friend to eat a steak just because your birthday was three weeks ago or a teetotaler to have a shot of vodka.
For me steak and vodka are no big deal, playing a pop tune would be.
 
#176
damonsmith said:
There is not a bass player alive, much less in this discussion with flawless intonation. It doesn't mean we don't try.
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Agreed.

Point of clarification about a previous post in another thread.
My post about Stanley Clarke's intonation was more a point about why I prefer his electric playing. Not a statements about his ability. As I said before. he is the reason I picked up the bass. If I could play half that well someday I'll die a happy man.
 
#177
TroyK said:
I think motives in this tread span from wanting to think of ourselves as close allies with some of these people to resenting their success as we struggle..
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I don't have any motives for posting here - it's just a chat, as I might do at my local Jazz club over a few drinks! :p

In fact if a conversation goes that way, in future - I might say - "did you know that Gary Peacock....etc. " ;)
 
#178
I can certainly grasp what a big deal it can be.

After that grasping, though, I'm coming at this from another point of view. I'm looking at a bunch of experienced, professional, adult people (well, except for that 20-something club manager -- as the investigating officer I'd like to know more about him) working together and managing a dispute. That was a bad scene with a club full of angry people, pushing and restraining people, threats being made. Why does it have to be like that? That's what I'm talking about.

Gary has every right not to play. The others have every right to play. Don't wanna play? Don't play. But don't set events in motion that cause a near riot and besmirch the dignity of Lee Konitz.

But here's a critical point: none of us know what actually went down there. It's entirely possible Gary made his decision known in a reasonable manner and things went bad because of the actions of others.

Of course it was about art. That's basic, Damon. But we've got a stage full of experienced, professional, respected artists up there. Grown-ups. Heavy-weights. Elvis included, in his realm of the pop song and pop performance. It's about how the dispute was managed and the disastrous way it ended up that we're talking about here. People's simple behaviour with each other. And damn right it's gossipey! We wanna know if somebody's a prima donna, if somebody got punched in the nose, who's steamed at whom. I know I talk about sh*t like that with my playing colleagues. It's Mary Hartman, Mary freaking Hartman in between sets...
 
#180
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