Pet peeve

[xgator4u]

You hit the core issue. I've said for years that the "work" we get paid for is the setup and teardown. I like to drive (especially the spectacular twisties around here) but I HATE to just sit around. So sitting around, setting up, and tearing down are the things that are best avoided. If I can reliably set up in 30 minutes (easily known if I've played the club before), then I'm early if I arrive 45 minutes before the gig.

BTW, starting on time is imperative to me. And I've been in at least one band that show up two hours earlyand STILL started 5 to 10 minutes late every time. GRRRRRR!

YUP I'll play for free, any time you like.
YOU pick me up at my house, transport me, feed me, have all of the gear{to MY satisfaction} set up when I get there, so that all I have to do is play, then AS SOON as I'm done playing, {none of this fiddle fu67ing around sh!t} transport me back to my house, Then I will be delighted to accommodate your request.
Otherwise I require you to compensate me.
THAT is my standard response when asked to play freebies.

PAID gigs [and chump change don't count] is a totally different thing.
I refuse to be late period.
I will be there @ or before the agreed time,I will do my share and MORE of set up/tear down, I will be prepared, and I will deliver a professional performance.

As usual, in this life, you get what you pay for.

 

[Robroy]

Sorry, but this is my pet peeve. People deciding how professional they will be based on pay. Don't except jobs if you don't think the pay warrants being a professional. There is nothing professional about not honoring your commitments.

I see it like this. It takes me an hour and fifteen minutes to drive to work. Every day I leave an hour and 20 minutes before I expect to be there. But the day I went on the interview, I left an hour and 45 minutes before I needed to be there.

Some instances are critical enough that you need to be anal about when you time your arrival. But for the "normal" stuff, you apply different rules. i.e. a low paying (and future opportunity) gig is "normal". You need to have a routine down. Something special is NOT normal, and you may want to show up earlier than you normally would.

And I'm not sure what "being a proessional" means to you. If you are saing that a person that can set up and sound check in 20 minutes that shows up "only an hour" before the performance is not "being a professional", I'll have to disagree with your definition.

 

[Robroy]

Sorry, but this is my pet peeve. People deciding how professional they will be based on pay. Don't except jobs if you don't think the pay warrants being a professional. There is nothing professional about not honoring your commitments.

I forgot to mention, I know very few "professional" musicians. And I don't just mean musicians without a day job. There are plenty of those, and they are usually the LEAST "professional". But the professionals I do know do it as a job. They show up as you would show up for a job. Not late, but not absurdly early either. After all, they aer getting paid for the TIME they are there, starting at the time they are TOLD to be there - just like most "jobs".

If you are opening assistant manager of a McDonalds, you want to be professional and show up on time too, even if the pay sucks.

 

[Robroy]

Ha! I just realized something. When I was in Seattle, I would gig, on average, one night a month and bring in about $100-$250 personally. Now my calendar shows me booked for every single Saturday and Friday night (and some Saturday mornings) between now and the end of October. And most of them are either free or chump change. And I'm also trying to build a 600 sq foot deck on my house, cut up about 150 felled trees on my property, and regrade my 1/4 mile driveway with a box I pull with my tractor before applying another layer of dense pack.

No wonder I don't want to show up two hours early.

 

[lfmn16]

I see it like this. It takes me an hour and fifteen minutes to drive to work. Every day I leave an hour and 20 minutes before I expect to be there. But the day I went on the interview, I left an hour and 45 minutes before I needed to be there.

Some instances are critical enough that you need to be anal about when you time your arrival. But for the "normal" stuff, you apply different rules. i.e. a low paying (and future opportunity) gig is "normal". You need to have a routine down. Something special is NOT normal, and you may want to show up earlier than you normally would.

And I'm not sure what "being a proessional" means to you. If you are saing that a person that can set up and sound check in 20 minutes that shows up "only an hour" before the performance is not "being a professional", I'll have to disagree with your definition.

What I'm saying is that a 'professional' honors their commitments. I've got no beef with someone refusing to show up two hours early. I have a problem with people saying they are going to show up at a certain time and then not following through.

In my current band we have 4 members, hire out sound and lights which is 3-4 more people and we have 2-3 roadies to help with the equipment. When one person doesn't show when they say they will, that can potentially impact 9 or 10 other people.

 

[Robroy]

What I'm saying is that a 'professional' honors their commitments. I've got no beef with someone refusing to show up two hours early. I have a problem with people saying they are going to show up at a certain time and then not following through.

In my current band we have 4 members, hire out sound and lights which is 3-4 more people and we have 2-3 roadies to help with the equipment. When one person doesn't show when they say they will, that can potentially impact 9 or 10 other people.

Sorry. I get it now.

I've gotta say that in this particular case it is the path of least resistance. You can't reason with this guy because he is like Nigel why only knows to say, "But this goes to eleven." He tries to wear you down no matter how absurd his argument. So what I do is not commit. When he says "be there at five", I say "I'll see you all there".

Also, because of where we live, if people don't specify "fast time" (eastern) or "slow time" (central) it gives you another out.

e.g. "I thought you meant 5:00, SLOW time."

I can also get stuck behind an Amish horse pulled carriage for "miles".

Oops. One other thing. It impacts nobody. The one time I was truly "late" it was unavoidable. There was an emergency at the day job. I got there 20 minutes before we were to start and we were using a brand new PA and I was the sound man. The band started five minutes late.

And here is the deal: If you are reasonable about your requests and will negotiate with folks on things, you don't have to worry about people playing games with language. It's how overly agressive leaders find themselves surrounded by "yes men" and eventually fall because of it. None of their advisors dare be honest - leading to their own failure.

As usual, the issue involves deep philosophical implications for me.

 

[xUptheIronsx]

I've only done a few shows where there were multiple bands but, yeah, I consider it disrespectful to leave while the band after you is playing. If I'm gonna leave, it will be during the break between them and the band that follows. As an audience member, I also won't leave in the middle of a song. I'll wait until a song is done or, better yet, leave during their break. Common courtesy.

I am the same way. In the band, we usually are there about an hour early cause it takes that long for our guit player to set things up. Plus it is cool to talk to the otehr bands etc. I NEVER leave a show until all bands are done. this has forced me to sit through some tough acts, but in the end, it is still about respecting everyone and developing a bond. As an observer, i will finish out a set before leaving usually.

WE almost always have at least an hour drive to where we practice from anywhere we play, so sometimes those can be late nights, but there is usually a stop at Waffle House or White Castles on the books, and that makes it worthwhile!

 

[avvie]

OP here. This has been an interesting thread.
Since I posted there has been much complaining in the band and dude is just prepared enough to not get fired but has also cancelled practices wantonly. The saga continues but I've laid down a couple of ultimatums so we'll see if things improve. The band is getting work so it's hard to just boot him right this second.

 

[Robroy]

I play with a local guy (has been part of the music scene here over 40 years) that will cancel an average of 3 out of 5 rehearsals. Since it's just a side thing, I stay with him but learned early on to have alternate plans. It is a cultural difference, mainly.

 

[xgator4u]

THIS is the O.P. so it began with excuses, not being prepared, and the O.P. having to be the glue that binds.
He HAD THE TALK. and is irritated.

Player shows up at either gig or rehearsal and says things like "...we had company all day!..." or "I've been up since 3 am...." or "I've been sick for the past couple of days..."
These are invariably code for "I'm not prepared, didn't practice and don't know the songs. I'm going to miss pickup lines, won't play the signature riff and I'm going to ask 'how does that one go?..' before nearly every other song."

This week's gig was worse than last week's and it's the same set list. Had to have The Talk afterwards...the one that says "it's all I can do to glue this all together and I won't keep putting up with it."

Irritating.

HERE is the current situation. STILL waiting to see if things improve.

OP here. This has been an interesting thread.
Since I posted there has been much complaining in the band and dude is just prepared enough to not get fired but has also cancelled practices wantonly. The saga continues but I've laid down a couple of ultimatums so we'll see if things improve. The band is getting work so it's hard to just boot him right this second.

I dunno, maybe it's me.
But it doesn't seem like "THE TALK" did a whole hell of a lot of good.

NOW there is "much complaining" within the band.
Dude is BARELY skating on thin ICE.

SO>>>>
wait some more, because dude {and O.P. it seems} believe him to be irreplaceable because the band is getting work.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE ???

 

[mellowinman]

THIS is the O.P. so it began with excuses, not being prepared, and the O.P. having to be the glue that binds.
He HAD THE TALK. and is irritated.



HERE is the current situation. STILL waiting to see if things improve.



I dunno, maybe it's me.
But it doesn't seem like "THE TALK" did a whole hell of a lot of good.

NOW there is "much complaining" within the band.
Dude is BARELY skating on thin ICE.

SO>>>>
wait some more, because dude {and O.P. it seems} believe him to be irreplaceable because the band is getting work.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE ???

Every rehearsal the guy misses is the one where they could be auditioning players.

 

[xgator4u]

Every rehearsal the guy misses is the one where they could be auditioning players.

YUP.
I thought it was ME, and I must be missing something.

 

[avvie]

Mostly a matter of time and available players. We all have other gigs and I have two jobs on top of it. Things improved after first talk then backslid last week. There juzt hasnt been enough time to address it yet, but I did have a possible replacement come to a gig a couple of days ago to scope it out.

 

[Biggbass]

A possible quick fix to this type of band problem is

I went thru the very same scenario with a band member (keyboardist) and after about 18 months of it I neared the point of meltdown with him one night. The frustration level with him was growing steadily. Then, it got to a point where he was actually learning songs and wood-shedding his parts at the gigs. Then late for rehearsals, no show at rehearsals, late for gigs and eventually a no show at a gig.
My only regret is that I let it go so long that I became angry. I should have had the talk with him much much sooner and just told him outright that his time with the band had come to an end. And thus began my low tolerance for band member BS.

 

[avvie]

Yeah, there hasn't been any "stewing" in our situation. I'm surprised he hasnt just quit from all the finger-pointing he's been getting. But the singer is great and the forward momentum has to be maintained. Tough balancing act for sure.
When I was younger I thought people grew up and stopped acting like children by around age 25. Boy is my face red....

 

[mellowinman]

Yeah, there hasn't been any "stewing" in our situation. I'm surprised he hasnt just quit from all the finger-pointing he's been getting. But the singer is great and the forward momentum has to be maintained. Tough balancing act for sure.
When I was younger I thought people grew up and stopped acting like children by around age 25. Boy is my face red....

For reference, I am 51, and no one is accusing me of being grown up.

 

[Robroy]

Yeah, there hasn't been any "stewing" in our situation. I'm surprised he hasnt just quit from all the finger-pointing he's been getting. But the singer is great and the forward momentum has to be maintained. Tough balancing act for sure.
When I was younger I thought people grew up and stopped acting like children by around age 25. Boy is my face red....

Music is a parallel universe. I didn't start playing bass until I was 44 and it is a darned good thing. With my personality type, I'd have done the endless pursuit of fame as I continued to work random warehouse jobs. Instead, I got a good career in IT first and this is just something a lot of fun to do in my empty nester world.

But a LOT of the people I deal with in my "music" universe have been playing their whole life and their lifestyle is very often what I successfully avoided. And the utter lack of social skills, decorum and just plain common sense is a little hard to deal with sometimes. And this is at ALL ages.

 

[avvie]

Oh, I don't find it confined to just the music world

 

[Robroy]

Oh, I don't find it confined to just the music world

Naw, it's just that the music world is one of the places that offers it the richest soil.

 

[mellowinman]

Naw, it's just that the music world is one of the places that offers it the richest soil.

I was "trying to make it" for awhile in the early nineties, and rubbed elbows with quite a few music industry people. Some of them were a little slimey.

I decided I had better get a good day job, and I started working in Mortgages. I used to famously announce to my peers, "you know all this working in the Morgage Industry makes me miss the morality of the Music Business."