Wait wait... so you're saying that musicians in a band need to play off of each other and not just treat people as their slaves?
Whoa...
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Phrases bassists should stop using immediately
- Thread starter JimmyM
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Wait wait... so you're saying that musicians in a band need to play off of each other and not just treat people as their slaves?
Whoa...
With the right musicians, absolutely.
Then again some people might function better that way... I don't know.
-I- as the bassist will know!
BTW, and this isn't directed at you, Brad, I'm getting a real kick at all the people who got so uptight over my opening post. I like how my disdain of these stupid catch phrases like "groove" and "lock in" and "mwah" and all that other crap translates to some of you as "cacophony" and "rebellion."
Hey, I've done plenty of employer-pleasing gigs where I've "locked in," "grooved," etc. Even when I'm playing my own stuff, I have been known to "groove." So don't give me that "If the guy paying you tells you to groove, you'll groove" business. I turn down almost as much work as I get.
But "locking in" and "grooving" are but two concepts in thousands when it comes to music, so why limit yourself to those two? And really, "locking in" is a bogus concept anyway so it shouldn't count. When I was starting out, "locking in" was called "keeping good time" and the only reason bass players were told to "lock in with the drummer" was because not many of them knew how to keep time because the lamest guitarist out of the 3 that showed up to the jam session became the bassist. So keep good time? Sure, I can do that.
Oh, and by the way, "kicking someone in the sack" is a figure of speech. I wasn't aware I had to explain that. I don't go around kicking people in the sack. Lighten up!
That the two of you are locked? Okay.
I don't think anyone looked at it as rebellion.... more like not dealing with reality
Okay, I'll play along...when the guy telling you to groove doesn't get what he asks for, what typically happens?
That's right, Donald Trump time...
"you're fired!"
If you turn down gigs simply because someone wants you to "groove", cool. Seems like an odd reason to turn down work.
Who says they "limit" anything. The only limitations I have on my playing for hire are to be musical and use good judgement. That's what I get paid for so why wouldn't I do it?
C'mon, Jimmy... lighten up? That horse is already out of the barn. Look at the groundwork you laid.
When you start a post stating your opinion, then tell EVERYONE that might disagree with you (knowing some will) that they can go F*** themselves, what do you expect?
Maybe if the "kick" you got was a kick to your sack...perhaps it would have enlightened you a bit to how you came across.
Cheers.
Brad, please kill me. Now I'm seeing what's happening...you people are cursory reading my posts and taking what you think you want to hear out of them.Okay, I'll play along...when the guy telling you to groove doesn't get what he asks for, what typically happens?
That's right, Donald Trump time...
"you're fired!"
If you turn down gigs simply because someone wants you to "groove", cool. Seems like an odd reason to turn down work.
I have never been fired for not grooving, nor have I ever turned down work because I refuse to groove. Nor have I ever actually refused to groove. I often groove. When it's appropriate. But I certainly don't try to make every song I play sound like Jamerson or Verdine White. There's a time to groove, and there's a time not to groove...that's all I'm saying. If you want to call every single piece of music you play "grooving," that's fine by me. But if you make every song sound like Jamerson, you're doing something wrong.
So people, in the future, please read all of my posts thoroughly before commenting on them, and if you think you see something in there that's not really in there, either re-read what I wrote or ask me for clarification. The onus is on you to understand what I wrote, as I write clearly with impeccable grammar. If you don't understand it, it's not my problem.
It still sounds like you think only Jamerson/Verdine White kind of stuff grooves. All music grooves. If it didn't, it would be noise.
-Alex
Again +1
All music has its own groove. I would suggest Jimmi explains what he means by groove.
Not the drummers I play with. Their primary job is to be musical. On many occasions I'll keep time while a drummer will go out in left field. It works.
Not many things worse than playing with a drummer who keeps time but isn't playing the song. I did a gig recently like that and it sucked to high heaven. He played the wrong beats, IN TIME, and did extended, no room for anything else fills every fourth measure... I'm guessing to somehow mask the fact that he didn't know any of the songs.
But he kept time.
I think we're getting into minutia. The drummer you played with evidently didn't have the right musical idea. I don't advocate the drummer just lock into a pattern and never leave or embellish it. And I don't advicate the drummer sucking.
I play with drummers who are busy (when it's appropriate), articulate and musical. However, they are required to be so within the context of keeping good time. Does this absolve the other band members of having good time? Of course not. There has to be a reference point in a band setting, though, or everyone's own interpretation of the right time will result in chaos. In any band I've played in, and there have been quite a few in the 32 years I've played bass, the drummer was that reference point.
LOL. I've never seen so much virtual sack-kicking in all my life.
Who knew one needed to wear a cup when posting on Talkbass?
More like you can't write what you think in a clear fashion.
You forgot... "So don't give me that "If the guy paying you tells you to groove, you'll groove" business. I turn down almost as much work as I get".
I wonder what you really meant?
So we can count you among the folks with a limited idea of what the term means. If you took more than a cursory glance at the rest of this thread you'd probably have a better clue by now.
Jamerson = groove so groove = Jamerson. Brilliant... but you probably didn't really mean that either.
So the onus is not on you to clearly put forth what's supposedly on your mind. How is that not beyond lame?
People commented on your posts as they were written. Were they supposed to wait on this one before commenting ont he rest?
People are taking what you said at face value. The only problem with that is that, according to this, you can't seem to say what you want to say and instead said what you said... but think that's a problem with the other guy and not you.
This officially became a joke with this post, Jimmy.
I think we're getting into minutia. The drummer you played with evidently didn't have the right musical idea. I don't advocate the drummer just lock into a pattern and never leave or embellish it. And I don't advicate the drummer sucking.
Your idea of minutiae is my idea of a simple example to illustrate a point... which considering the level of comprehension in this thread is sorely needed.
My point is simple... if the drummer's primary job is to keep time, if he does that is he doing his primary job? IMO, no.
The primary job is to play the song. Some drummers play as if their primary job is timekeeping and they're usually pretty boring to play with. Timekeeping isolates them from the rest of the band, leaving it (time) up to them. Sure, they can be a reference point but so can any of the other instruments or even vocals.
The drummer I mentioned didn't just lock into a pattern. He did keep good time... it didn't vary, it was steady. And steadily wrong for what we were playing. This wasn't about being busy. It's about playing in context, which is not primarily about time. Time for the bassist is just as important as the drummer.
Does this absolve the other band members of having good time? Of course not. There has to be a reference point in a band setting, though, or everyone's own interpretation of the right time will result in chaos. In any band I've played in, and there have been quite a few in the 32 years I've played bass, the drummer was that reference point.
And in the bands I play in the drummers have the freedom not to be and exercise that fredom regularly. No doubt we're not play the same kinds of music as you with the same mindset. The drummers I work with could drop out or do some off time fills or whatever and that doesn't mean we'll lose time because we don't have our "primary timekeeper" to lean on
. The primary timekeeper is the individual.As far a chaos, I've experienced far more of that with drummers than without, with no drummer to rely on, everybody using their own well developed sense of time. That's not the drummer's responsibility IMO IME.
I use a pick so I guess I insta-suck. Might as well quit while I'm ahead right? Continuing to play with a pick will just make me worse and worse...
Spose I deserve a kick in the beanbag as well or what?
Yes, because you use a pick you suck. Because someone said so. Someone who doesn't even know you... so it must have merit.
Now what?
Like I said... I'm ********. I didn't even get THAT.
I also sit on my thumb and smell it.
Brad, you're screwing with my muse...
OK, to make it clear...Someone in this thread posted something about getting paid to groove like I had no clue about such things. And I, being a working musician, pointed out how often I work because when the gig calls for "grooving," I "groove." Likewise, if it doesn't call for grooving, I don't. And the result of that is turning down almost as much work as I take because I'm often already booked.
And because I don't use the almighty G word to describe every kind of music I could possibly play, people see fit to villify me publicly and turn me into a pariah. Well if you think "groove" applies to every situation, please tell me how to groove in 5/8, or 11/4 or any other time signature that isn't divisible by 2 or 3. Does the song "Here Comes The Bastards" by Primus sound like a groove to you? Please tell me how "groove" applies to a song where you're playing four whole notes tied together. You're hitting a note and letting it ring...where's the groove in that? You think because you can hit a note on the one and let it ring for 16 beats that qualifies as "grooving?"
And really, what the heck is so bad about wanting to not groove sometimes? Some of you act like I suggested bringing back human sacrifice.
OK, to make it clear...Someone in this thread posted something about getting paid to groove like I had no clue about such things. And I, being a working musician, pointed out how often I work because when the gig calls for "grooving," I "groove." Likewise, if it doesn't call for grooving, I don't. And the result of that is turning down almost as much work as I take because I'm often already booked.
And because I don't use the almighty G word to describe every kind of music I could possibly play, people see fit to villify me publicly and turn me into a pariah. Well if you think "groove" applies to every situation, please tell me how to groove in 5/8, or 11/4 or any other time signature that isn't divisible by 2 or 3. Does the song "Here Comes The Bastards" by Primus sound like a groove to you? Please tell me how "groove" applies to a song where you're playing four whole notes tied together. You're hitting a note and letting it ring...where's the groove in that? You think because you can hit a note on the one and let it ring for 16 beats that qualifies as "grooving?"
And really, what the heck is so bad about wanting to not groove sometimes? Some of you act like I suggested bringing back human sacrifice.
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