Does the white nail polish stay on when accidentally touch it a few times?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Please educate me on fretless side markers...
- Thread starter Claymore
- Start date
-
- Tags
- advice fretless frets side markers
Does the white nail polish stay on when accidentally touch it a few times?
As I wrote earlier, I wanted to experiment on an inexpensive bass when something went wrong. In my woodworking experience, def. not my strong suit in life, something ALWAYS goes wrong. When I occasionally get something right the first time, it's a cause for celebration. In this case, the center punch slipped and took a piece out of the neck. One thing i am good at, unfortunately due to getting way too much practice, is fixing chips and dents in the neck. Defretting a neck without creating at least a few chips is impossible, at least for me.
So, I now keep in stock the fine products from GluBoost, the best series of CA-based products on the planet. I coat fretless boards with their CA product and do chip and dent repair with another of their products. They also make a great accelerator, so the CA dries hard as a rock in seconds instead of minutes or hours.
Anyway, I did this to a very inexpensive bass and I have already repaired it.
What I learned is that it will be a good idea to create at least one template (34" scale to begin with) so I can fasten that to the neck and it will show me where to drill the holes all in one go. I found it too risky and imprecise, not to mention time consuming, to have to figure out where to drill and how best to ensure the drill goes where I want it to. I also learned that it is better to drill out any existing dots rather than try to punch them out.
Ideally the template should be made of metal but I don't have a machine shop at my disposal and the commercial shops around here are ridiculously expensive, so I will probably just make it from wood and make a few of them while I am at it. Unless I can figure out a way to prevent it, each time I use the template it will experience at least some wear, so I will need a new one for each job. I don't foresee doing that many so it won't be any great expense.
Lumber yard here I come....
So, I now keep in stock the fine products from GluBoost, the best series of CA-based products on the planet. I coat fretless boards with their CA product and do chip and dent repair with another of their products. They also make a great accelerator, so the CA dries hard as a rock in seconds instead of minutes or hours.
Anyway, I did this to a very inexpensive bass and I have already repaired it.
What I learned is that it will be a good idea to create at least one template (34" scale to begin with) so I can fasten that to the neck and it will show me where to drill the holes all in one go. I found it too risky and imprecise, not to mention time consuming, to have to figure out where to drill and how best to ensure the drill goes where I want it to. I also learned that it is better to drill out any existing dots rather than try to punch them out.
Ideally the template should be made of metal but I don't have a machine shop at my disposal and the commercial shops around here are ridiculously expensive, so I will probably just make it from wood and make a few of them while I am at it. Unless I can figure out a way to prevent it, each time I use the template it will experience at least some wear, so I will need a new one for each job. I don't foresee doing that many so it won't be any great expense.
Lumber yard here I come....
There is a difference between the side dot placement on a factory made fretless and a defretted fretless.
A factory made fretless will have the side dots where the note node will be.
A defretted fretless will have the side dots in between the fret inlays.
Like a fretted bass.
A factory made fretless will have the side dots where the note node will be.
A defretted fretless will have the side dots in between the fret inlays.
Like a fretted bass.
Last edited:
That's true unless, during the defretting process, the side dots at the now incorrect position are removed and new dots are placed at the correct position. When I do my conversions, which have been an evolutionary process, I first started just by removing the side dots entirely. Now I am working on not only removing them, but also placing new dots in the correct position - hence the need for an installation template as previously mentioned.
I thought about that.
I would to have to remove then plug and match the plugs with rosewood dust.
I would have to look it up, but there's a very cool online store - Lee Valley Tools - where I buy just two very useful items. First, they sell small blocks of wood of various kinds, perfect for making sawdust filler. They also make business card blanks made out of thin wood, perfect for use as fret slot fillers. The blocks are under $8 each and 50 business card blanks under $5. Shipping is inexpensive.
For my most recent defret, the board was made of jatoba, so I got an African mahogany block (very very close to jatoba in color), used a rasp to create a mound of dust and used the dust to fill the chips and dents and also used it to fill the holes created by removal of the dot markers on the fingerboard. I use a kerf saw, which looks like a miniature hacksaw, to even the fret slots. Then I dip the bottom of one of the business card blanks, insert it in the slot, and fold it until it breaks off fairly even with the board (repeat for each fret slot). Once that is all done, it's time to finish the board so that the lines and dots disappear and it's ready for the coat of my choice.
On some basses, the side markers will sand off, others have to be drilled and filled. Easy peasey either way.
For my most recent defret, the board was made of jatoba, so I got an African mahogany block (very very close to jatoba in color), used a rasp to create a mound of dust and used the dust to fill the chips and dents and also used it to fill the holes created by removal of the dot markers on the fingerboard. I use a kerf saw, which looks like a miniature hacksaw, to even the fret slots. Then I dip the bottom of one of the business card blanks, insert it in the slot, and fold it until it breaks off fairly even with the board (repeat for each fret slot). Once that is all done, it's time to finish the board so that the lines and dots disappear and it's ready for the coat of my choice.
On some basses, the side markers will sand off, others have to be drilled and filled. Easy peasey either way.
once it was dry it hasn't come off from any handling or touching, I did this over a year ago and still looks the same. both white and brown nail posh remain where I put them. I think its permanent unless I purposely used some lacquer thinner or deliberately scraped or sanded them.
Hi, TB’ers…I found this thread by accident. My question is - I hope - simple: can anyone explain why the builders put the side dots in between the note positions on a LINED fretless bass?
Thanks, in advance.
Thanks, in advance.
I suspect because a lot of people early in the Jaco explosion defretted existing instruments and it became a convention that eventually became a de-facto standard. Now, 45 years on, I suspect that this ...
... is more likely the reason.
Many, if not most manufacturers use the exact same neck on their production basses for both fretted and fretless models. It saves them money to do it that way. Money first, players second. Is anyone surprised?
The inference here is that factory fingerboards are cut from sheets that are pre-slotted. Otherwise, how is NOT slotting and inlaying a fingerboard would more costly when at least 5 fewer operations (slotting, fretting, crowning, polishing, installing front markers) are required?
Makes perfect sense to me. Because the transition from fretted to fretless is easier that way. You have the same visual reference. I have two fretless basses with that. And I have one with the side dots on the fret lines. But I prefer the dots between the lines anytime.
Just passing along info from pro players who know a lot more than I do. The only thing I am absolutely sure of is that there is no general agreement on the topic. Plus, some players like lines, some don't (like me), some like dots between the lines, some like dots where the lines would be if there were lines (like I do). Different strokes for different folks.
If you look at the Fender Tony Franklin signature, which Mr. Franklin actually plays, he had them add a side marker at first position (where the fret line would be if there was one) and the other side dots also line up with where your fingers would go for optimum intonation. The TF signature has no lines or markers on the fingerboard as Mr. Franklin finds them a distraction and can also alter your playing position if you have to bend over to watch your fingers. If you don't like that explanation, kindly contact Mr. Franklin. Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger.
If you look at the Fender Tony Franklin signature, which Mr. Franklin actually plays, he had them add a side marker at first position (where the fret line would be if there was one) and the other side dots also line up with where your fingers would go for optimum intonation. The TF signature has no lines or markers on the fingerboard as Mr. Franklin finds them a distraction and can also alter your playing position if you have to bend over to watch your fingers. If you don't like that explanation, kindly contact Mr. Franklin. Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger.
Thank you. I appreciate all the responses. And I believe there’s merit to what you say. However…I have a Rob Allen fretless lined MB-2 with the dots between the lines. At ~$5000 / instrument I don’t think it’s a cost saving move. I love the bass but have discovered I prefer either a blank unlined fingerboard with dots ON the note positions or a fretted fingerboard with dots in between the frets. Maybe I should call the Allen guys. But I suspect they would simply say that’s what customers expect (refer to the comments above re history and convention). But I find it distracting and partially out of sync. I’m thinking of posting it for sale here on TB.
If interested, PM me. It’s mint.
If interested, PM me. It’s mint.
I play fretless, have a couple (Fender J, Hohner FL, Dean A/E, Kala U-bass, and a 6-string guitar).
Mine all have the dots in the middle.
But I have a question:
if you need the dots at the note, why not just tune the bass for that?
Mine all have the dots in the middle.
But I have a question:
if you need the dots at the note, why not just tune the bass for that?
Wouldn’t that then make the open string a half step sharp or flat, depending on whether you increased or decreased tension to match the dot?
Totally agree...
Maybe true for some but it is not universal. I only played classical guitar (no markers) before picking up electric bass, and my first electric bass was unlined fretless, so that visual reference means nothing to me and just gets in the way.
He and I were talking about side dots between the fretlines on LINED basses. For unlined it’s different.
