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Double Bass Popping the top off an Engelhardt...

Rebop

Rebop

Jul 9, 2008
1,190
433
La Honda, CA
#1
Hey all,

To make a long story short, I accidentally dropped a bass I was working on in my shop. It is a basket case Engelhardt with lots of previous repairs. I had just finished a fingerboard dressing when it happened.
Miraculously the neck didn't break and all the work I've done is still solid. Unfortunately about 6 inches of the bass bar popped loose at the neck end. There's tons of yellow carpenters glue all over the bass bar (and the luthier that did it actually signed his name next to it).

Anyways, I'm trying to get the top off to address this issue. It's taken me about 2 hours and I have the C bout up to the neck done. That's it. The glue is like taffy even after heating it up and using a smoking hot knife. I have no idea what glue he used for the top but it's nasty. I'm also losing tons of the inner most lamination. It's just crumbling.

Is there another method I should try? I just want to get the top open enough to clean the joint in the bassbar and clamp it. I'm not giving up on this bass but my fingers are killing me and I have tons of edge repair to do now. This glue is a nightmare. I've never had this much trouble removing a top, and considering how it's going so far I think I'm just going to stop and meditate on it and see if there are other suggestions.
I should have my gluepot going by now. :(
 
#4
I'll try some strong vinegar later today. I think I have some under the sink for cleaning.
I'm using the same couple of blades I usually use. A small razor knife to get it started, my favorite antique pocket knife, and a couple wedges to keep the plate separated from the rib. Anything larger I feel will make an even bigger mess of the edges, but I'll try a sharpened palette knife to see how that feels. I usually only use those for the blocks.
I'm going to slow down and use my brain more for this one. It's been fighting me since the day I got it.
 
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#5
Brute force is working way better. Sharp palette knife and mallet is actually splitting it open without tearing the top apart. I'm also drizzling vinegar into the joint but not sure that's doing much.

Heat gun, vinegar, whack- repeat.
I was being too dainty before.
 
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#6
Interestingly, the knife keeps diving between the layers of plywood instead of the glue-line in some spots. Not ideal. Was going great for a minute there.


20231106_121145.jpg
 
#11
Now comes the fun part of regluing the laminations back together.

I don't think the bassbar was glued down very well. Not enough clamp pressure when it was fixed last time.

Going to do the best I can and also add some linen or denim reinforcements on each end.
Should I thin down the bass bar toward the ends to make it a little more flexible, or just go full gorilla clamping it down? It's very sprung.
 
#12
Rebop said:
Should I thin down the bass bar toward the ends to make it a little more flexible, or just go full gorilla clamping it down? It's very sprung.
Click to expand...

You want the spring in it, but I do prefer a smoother transition on the ends when adding linen.

Securely clamping the curved bar to the curved top can be logistically challenging, and you may find that the top has flattened out a bit.
 
#13
Clamping the bar down isn’t bad if you have a deep enough clamp. It’s OK to let the foot of the clamp bite into the bar a bit to gain purchase. It’s an Engel and nobody is going to see it. Getting the top adhered down correctly would be my concern.
 
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#14
Thanks for the insight. I certainly have a lot to think about. Luckily the laminations are like a jigsaw puzzle so I'll have time for that while I piece this poor bass back together.

Man. Everything was going so well, too. I was finally able to dress a fingerboard and feel proud of it. Then I fumbled the bass which started this whole journey. Thing fell head first off the bench in slow motion.
Says something about my work though. When I bought this bass the neck was shattered and it's still solid. The only damage from the fall was this janky bass bar repair.
Sorry. Had to vent. I wanted to test drive it at the gig on Friday. Instead it's in pieces again. It never ends... the bass continues to be insubordinate and churlish.
 
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#16
Rebop said:
Man. Everything was going so well, too. I was finally able to dress a fingerboard and feel proud of it. Then I fumbled the bass which started this whole journey. Thing fell head first off the bench in slow motion.
Says something about my work though. When I bought this bass the neck was shattered and it's still solid. The only damage from the fall was this janky bass bar repair.
Sorry. Had to vent. I wanted to test drive it at the gig on Friday. Instead it's in pieces again. It never ends... the bass continues to be insubordinate and churlish.
Click to expand...

It's the curse of where you live. If you lived in La Toyota, everything would be easy-peasey.
 
#19
I'm currently trying to do my best Iris Carr impersonation piecing this top back together, but when I get to regluing the bassbar, how much of the yellow glue should I remove from that joint?
I'm worried about misshaping the two surfaces if I go too wild getting every speck of old yellow glue out.
I've never tried using hide glue to stick together a joint this contaminated with yellow glue, but have had success with pieces that had titebond and little to no stress on the joint.
 

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