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Power Cable for a Bass Amp Question

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#281
Hi notanaggie. Yes, you are correct, that is how it is hooked up. I completely understand your sentiment. I also treated such claims of improved sound with total disbelief. And that was just for the regular bass connecting cable, not even an AC power cord. But I went back and forth with those cables many times today, and it was not a small difference. I'm not asking you to believe me, I know most of you won't, I wouldn't have either, so that's why I'm looking forward to the Double Blind tests I've read will be carried out soon. In the scheme of things, this won't make me a better player, and at 1am on a Saturday night down at the local bar I doubt anybody would know, or care, if my harmonics are cleaner, but it makes ME feel good to know that I'm allowing the full sound of my bass to come thru. By the way, I just checked out the thread where everybody shows their rig, WOW, some mighty fine equipment. I doubt that any of you would need an esoteric power cable to get good sound. Rock On
 
#282
Geez man, are you serious? Next thing you're telling me that if I put the unconnected tara labs cable within 2 feet of my bass rig, it will make it sound better. You cable guys should all try it, see what happens. Oh wait, put some blue-ish glassy looking shiny stone next to your rig too, as that will make it sound even better.

But as was said earlier, the jokes about this are getting tiresome. But the persistence of people buying this snake oil is really unbelievable.
 
#283
Hey nashvillebill,
I know you live in Nashville,do you know Brian Wooten,the guitarist with Chris Cagle,and or their monitor mixer by the name of Cindy(I didn't get her last name)? I sold the soundman at the club where they were playing a power cable for a poweramp in the house system yesterday.He came back later that afternoon and ordered (5) more,he was blown away!! When he came back,he brought Brian with him.Robert(the house soundman for Doc's Nightclub,Monterey,Ca.) had told him about the cable and he wanted to check them out for his guitar rig.I gathered up some cables and went back to the club with them to give him a demo on his guitar rig.
First he wanted to A/B guitar cables with his current guitar cord.We plugged his in first,then a Tara Labs Ultima.He couldn't believe the difference! Next he tried the Tara Labs "The One" guitar cable and was even more blown away.By now Cindy(Chris Cagle's monitor mixer) came up on the stage to see what was going on and she couldn't believe the difference! Now comes the good part,we switched back to his personal cord and changed the powercord on his amp to a Tara Labs,and he was stunned! His exact words were "I hate you"!!!! I told him that I was out of these power cables,that this was my personal cable,and he asked me to call him when my next shippment arrives! A little while later,he came back to my store and I gave him a demo on another "snake oil product" that i'm pretty sure none of you have heard of called ERS paper from a high-end audiofile company called Stillpoints(Invalid Link Removed).I wasn't even going to bring ERS up on this board because if you don't believe me about power cables,you will think that I am out of my mind if I were to tell you that by simply placing a piece of ERS paper on the top of your amp in your rack,that it opens-up your sound even more!!! Anyway,Brian was so floored after checking-out the ERS paper,he went back to Doc's and got Cindy and brought her back to my store for a demo!! She was also blown away! I don't even stock ERS paper(yet),so I couldn't even sell them any,but told them I would call them when I get some in-stock! I borrowed the sample sheets I had from a high-end stereo store that turned me onto them! By-the-way,Geoff Gould (founder of Modulas basses) came to see me with a new prototype bass(I have known him since my Alembic days) and I did the ERS demo for him and he was also amazed.Don't take my word for it,shoot him an e-mail and ask him for yourself!!
One more thing,I spoke to Long(the Cable Guy) on Monday,and he has not heard back from Bob Lee yet on a time to do the blind test! Are you still interested Bob? I can't wait!! I told Long that if it can be arranged to happen on a Wednesday(my day-off from work),that I would love to be there for the test at QSC and would even bring down several different amps and basses,and even some ERS paper!! I think that this is worth a 6 hour drive(each way)!!!!

John
 
#285
Tin foil hats are making a come back too.
Click to expand...

Does this have anything to do with aliens because I was totally talking with a friend about that yesterday. If proper foil is used, the hats are good for keeping them from reading your mind... we cant let them know what we are thinking. :ninja:
 
#286
Originally posted by prockenklang
A little while later,he came back to my store and I gave him a demo on another "snake oil product" that i'm pretty sure none of you have heard of called ERS paper from a high-end audiofile company called Stillpoints(Invalid Link Removed).I wasn't even going to bring ERS up on this board because if you don't believe me about power cables,you will think that I am out of my mind if I were to tell you that by simply placing a piece of ERS paper on the top of your amp in your rack,that it opens-up your sound even more!!!

John
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Often times unusual correlations between events will lead people to make bad conclusions about causation.

For example, if there was a software glitch at the press where lottery tickets were printed , causing loads of winning tickets to be printed on Wednesday, and three weeks in a row you won on a ticket you bought on Thursday, you might conclude that Thursday was your lucky day, and start doing all your risky activities that day.

In your case, it is obvious to me that your attribution of special cables and ERS paper is a similarly false correlation, and in actuality I suspect that it is the crack that you are smoking before and/or during these supposed listening tests that is responsible for these euphoria-inducing tones that you are hearing.

I'm going to start working on my high grade 110 outlets, as well as a new line of asbestos tube cozies I'm having my wife knit up for the holidays. You supply the rock, I'll supply the crisp highs and rich mids. :)
 
#288
It's always very easy to be "blown away" by a change that you know is there, however irrelevent it is. I remember when I worked for a certain Germman microphone/headphone company in the late 80's a colleague heard about coloring the edge of a CD with a green marker, and he was "blown away" by the results. It didn't make sense to us, and an engineer visiting from the factory in Germany suggested blind listening to "greened" and unmodified versions of the same CD to see if anyone could identify them by the sound.

In that situation, it became clear that everyone was at best guessing which CD he was listening to. Even the guy who said the improvement "blew him away" couldn't actually hear a difference, at least enough to make more than a 50-50 result. Relying on listening alone--absent the hype--is often a great "unblower." ;)

Prock, you may be too young to remember the green-edged CD urban legend. It's not the only thing that has "blown people away" in anecdotes but turned out to be a hoax, but it's one that many people have heard of. As Harry Truman once said, "The only thing new in this world is the history we don't know." Because of the placebo effect and the difficulty in setting up proper double-blind tests, audio hoaxes have always been among the easiest to put over on the unsuspecting. And they're lucrative, too.

I'm still looking for some free time with Pat to schedule these listening tests. Pat owns the company, so he can expect me to drop everything for an exploratory project, but that isn't reciprocal. But he said he's interested in doing the tests, and he's a very curious person, so I'm sure they'll happen when he has some time to devote to properly setting them up. Maybe very soon, maybe in a few weeks, I don't know.
 
#289
metron:
Does this have anything to do with aliens because I was totally talking with a friend about that yesterday. If proper foil is used, the hats are good for keeping them from reading your mind... we cant let them know what we are thinking. :ninja:
Click to expand...

<b>DeWd, don't be making light, this is real. I read it on the Internet: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html</b> Link Removed
 
#291
Hi Bob,
It's great to see that you are still interested! Since your boss is too busy to take part right now,and I understand why,tis the season,why don't you,Long,and myself get together on a Wednesday during your lunch break.We can go over to a friend of mines shop in Orange and do a test there! I'll be happy to drive back down another time when your boss can get together and do another test with him involved!

Hey Gooseyard,I don't have a problem with you not believing me,or with you and several others on this board making jokes!! I do have a problem however with you insulting me by saying I smoke crack.I have never once tried to insult you during this debate and I feel that your insults are totally un-professional and un-called for.

And last,let me start a new paragraph for Smash.you are right,ERS paper is by far the biggest crock of #### i'd ever heard of too!!! Even though I didn't believe it was possible,I at least made an effort to go over to Monterey Stereo and listen for myself. I've got a great idea,why don't you call around to some high-end stereo stores in your area and see if they have some that you can try.The guys at Monterey Stereo gave me a demo on a very high-end system,then loaned me 3 sheets to take home and try on my rig! You might find this to be truly interesting.

For those interested,from what I understand,ERS paper absorbs RF,and the military has been using it for years! If you have a few minutes,check-out their website at www.stillpoints.us,if nothing else there are some pretty interesting reviews on it.

John
 
#292
Originally posted by prockenklang


Hey Gooseyard,I don't have a problem with you not believing me,or with you and several others on this board making jokes!! I do have a problem however with you insulting me by saying I smoke crack.I have never once tried to insult you during this debate and I feel that your insults are totally un-professional and un-called for.


John
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Excellent, that's what I was shooting for.
 
#293
<i>For those interested,from what I understand,ERS paper absorbs RF,and the military has been using it for years! If you have a few minutes,check-out their website at www.stillpoints.us,if nothing else there are some pretty interesting reviews on it.</i>
<b>One thing I find curious is that none of these sites seem to provide .wav files of "before and after." While they could certainly manipulate those files, at least those of us who are curious could run a simple ABX test ourselves on our computers, and get some idea of the nature of the "improvement.". We could also run a spectrum analyzer and whatever other test tools we might care to apply. I'm just barely curious enough to do this, but driving anywhere is not something I'm going to do without a bigger carrot than a few anecdotes. </b>
 
#295
Originally posted by Passinwind
<i>For those interested,from what I understand,ERS paper absorbs RF,and the military has been using it for years! If you have a few minutes,check-out their website at www.stillpoints.us,if nothing else there are some pretty interesting reviews on it.</i>
<b>One thing I find curious is that none of these sites seem to provide .wav files of "before and after." While they could certainly manipulate those files, at least those of us who are curious could run a simple ABX test ourselves on our computers, and get some idea of the nature of the "improvement.". We could also run a spectrum analyzer and whatever other test tools we might care to apply. I'm just barely curious enough to do this, but driving anywhere is not something I'm going to do without a bigger carrot than a few anecdotes. </b>
Click to expand...


What about when you hear about a new bass or amp,do you need to hear wave files,that by-the-way CAN be manipulated,before you drive somewhere to try one out? You,most likely wouldn't trust any wave files from a cable manufacturer and I wouldn't either for that matter.I would want to hear it for myself in person.Do you take a spectrum analyzer with you when you go to check-out amps at a music store? I doubt it.I assume that you would go and listen with your ears.


John
 
#296
Originally posted by Bob Lee (QSC)
Thanks for the offer, John, but I would prefer to do a proper test, not just a lunchtime sales demo.
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Hi Bob,
what do you have to lose except for maybe an hour of your time? Keep in mind that it will take me at least 6 hours just to get there!!

By-the-way,this is not a lunchtime sales demo.You said that these cables can't make your gear sound better,I say they can,and I am willing to kill a whole day-off to show you! Don't you trust your ears? Like I said before,I don't have a problem driving back down again for you to do a "proper" test!

To the other guys on here that keep telling me to prove it by using some sort of measureing device,I don't have one to use! Guys,I don't work for Tara Labs,I'm just another bass player like yourselves who just happens to work at a music store where I am constantly being shown new products,some of which suck,and some that are worth telling others about,knowing full well that some,or like in this case,nearly all of the people on this board might not believe!


John
John
 
#297
prockenklang:
What about when you hear about a new bass or amp,do you need to hear wave files,that by-the-way CAN be manipulated,before you drive somewhere to try one out? You,most likely wouldn't trust any wave files from a cable manufacturer and I wouldn't either for that matter.I would want to hear it for myself in person.Do you take a spectrum analyzer with you when you go to check-out amps at a music store? I doubt it.I assume that you would go and listen with your ears.
John
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Generally, I get interested in new bass gear when I hear it in a venue I'm mixing in, or when someone brings it to me. Alternately, I may hear a recording (CD) that grabs my attention. I have purchased exactly one new bass since 1977, I'm a tough sell. I never, ever try out amps in a music store. A working gig environment or recording studio are the only places I would even consider doing that.

I' ve built hundreds of cables myself, and don't believe that there's any meaningful difference between properly spec'd and built ones...for me.

Since I hang out on a number or recording groups, trading .wav files is a great starting point, it allows me to gauge my interest in a given device or technique in a matter of minutes, and for free to boot. Yes, I apply an analyzer to every piece of equipment I design and build, it's a very basic step in the process. I've never seen something I can hear fail to show up with proper diagnostic tools.

But my point is: I don't need to *trust* an online demo, but I do *distrust* anyone who fails to provide one on request. Just a simple analyzer plot comparison would be a great start. It takes a couple of minutes to do this these days.

There's a saying on many USENET musicians' groups: <i>Post Your Clips!</i> People who refuse are ridiculed, and rightfully so. Some fake their clips, but that comes out in the wash.

I'll trust Bob Lee to do a proper test, if and when he feels like it. In the meantime, if someone wants me to consider buying something I'm hearing about online, they can at least put up something for me to listen to.
 
#298
Originally posted by prockenklang
what do you have to lose except for maybe an hour of your time? Keep in mind that it will take me at least 6 hours just to get there!!
Click to expand...

Okay. And your point is what, John?

By-the-way,this is not a lunchtime sales demo.You said that these cables can't make your gear sound better,I say they can,and I am willing to kill a whole day-off to show you! Don't you trust your ears?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you want to do a sales demo, just like the ones that you've told us about in this thread. A demo posed as an uncontrolled "test" would be a waste of both our time. Look, I don't let telemarketers commandeer an hour of my time, either, even if they pitch their product as the greatest thing since garlic bread. There are plenty of people pushing products with seemingly magical properties, and forgive me if I choose to not be the recipient of endless sales pitches for them.
 
#300
Passinwind:

You have an interesting approach, and I'm not going to disagree with any of it; however, it is not the typical approach that most musicians take. In fact, I've never heard anyone hear on TalkBass say they won't audition an amp, or cabinet, or anything else until someone sends them a soundclip. Maybe you could trust those clips in a good studio, but many computer speakers will make it impossible to make a judgement of something's true sound.

Maybe on your USENET, they say "post a clip", but here on Talkbass they say "trust your own ears".

JD
 
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