Power struggles

[jive1]

As for the noodling, it's rude, and regardless of your feelings towards this guy - if you're noodling while he's talking, you're telling him that you don't give a crap about anything he's saying. You very well might not, but I wouldn't expect any respect in return. You can noodle with your volume all the way down.

Agreed, it's no different than whipping out your phone and playing a Youtube video while someone is talking to you. In some cases, it's like blasting an airhorn in someone's face in the middle of a conversation. In either case, it reflects the character of the person listening, not the person talking..

 

[BigBasserino]

no, I don't always noodle...but I do noodle occasionally, because I'm there to play, not to listen to him yammer about what the correct chords are, because I already know what they are, because I did my homework.....every musician i know noodles...it's statistically impossible not to "noodle" when this guy is talking, because he talks way too much....so I see where you're trying to go, but 3 out of the 5 members want to can him, and nobody gives a rats about noodling.

So in one of my last bands before I decided to go it alone, I was playing with a good friend for years (wasn't the best drummer, wasn't unbearable till recently, knew people). We found out about a guy who we used to see play shows because the drummer friend is looking for a place and the new guy (a singer) is offering. Guy's about a decade older than us, but hey, older might mean wiser, right? Oh, and they like the idea of forming a band. I'm selected as bassist. Originals. Boy oh boy.

First rehearsal goes alright, everyone's met and getting along. Next rehearsal lines up and one guy goes, the rest of us stay, singer is getting more intense in his preferences, but I'm trying to work with him. We seem to write some new tunes, but by the next week I find they're changing because "we're still writing." 4-6 months hop by, I'm asking "what exactly is the agenda here?" Met with "it won't be ready till it's ready". Hmmm. "Mistakes were made" comes to mind.

By the first year we finally played a show. Results were underwhelming to say the least. I quit soon after because the controlling singer was out of his element. At the time, I was the only one who could get a sniff that something was wrong, regardless of probing. Fast forward 3 years, the band has reached the point they corrected the singer; if he starts controlling, they start ignoring.

I have no patience or time anymore for people who won't just come out and say what they want with a road map (even if it's on construction paper, at least there was some effort) to success. Moral of the story, correct your new "problem" and when all conflicts arise, ask everybody "does this sound like the plan or just a gripe?" It might be obvious. There's always some basement dweller with grandiose ideas, that doesn't negate the need for normalizing to everyone else.

 

[RustyAxe]

Those of you that got off telling the OP how wrong he was need to get off the Internet and go play with real people in real situations and learn that your idealized vision of how your band would run is highly unlikely to ever happen.

Funny. I DO play with people, many people, different genres three current projects plus fill-ins and such. Funny thing, they are (with a few exceptions) all mature ADULTS, socially well adjusted, have no ego issues, and are respectful of each other. Sure, there are times in a rehearsal when the chatting gets going, but that's by mutual agreement ... i.e.; we're taking a momentary break from the work before getting back to it. But when we're working out a song, there's only one person talking while the rest listen.

To no one in particular

What people here need to realize is that we are all at different places in our musical experiences, are different ages (yes, there IS a generation gap), play different genres to different kinds of audiences, play with others of varying skills and experience. If whatever is going on in YOUR band is OK with you, fine. But don't crap on comments or advice given, with the best of intentions, by those who are in a different musical place ... or don't post at all if you're just looking for pats on the back and universal affirmation, because you're not likely to get it here.

 

[smcgov]

hell i think we should start a thread on what noodling really is. The new guitar player and I, in between songs at practice play pieces of whatever songs come to mind....what really blew my mind is that he loves Rush, Robert Plant, Triumph....so we are finding new songs for our song list by....NOODLING. The new guitar player and the rest of the Berkely graduates in our band were SO OFFENDED that we were playing parts of songs together that were not being dictated to us by some lofty being sent to us to make sure us lower life form minions would just do what we're told at band practice lol

 

[RustyAxe]

hell i think we should start a thread on what noodling really is. The new guitar player and I, in between songs at practice play pieces of whatever songs come to mind....what really blew my mind is that he loves Rush, Robert Plant, Triumph....so we are finding new songs for our song list by....NOODLING. The new guitar player and the rest of the Berkely graduates in our band were SO OFFENDED that we were playing parts of songs together that were not being dictated to us by some lofty being sent to us to make sure us lower life form minions would just do what we're told at band practice lol

You have a big chip on your shoulder and seem to think that you're somehow "better" than the "Berkley graduates" who actually know and understand music and their instruments. Let us know when you have 90 stage-ready songs on your setlist and are playing three nights a week. We won't hold our breaths.

 

[sean_on_bass]

hell i think we should start a thread on what noodling really is. The new guitar player and I, in between songs at practice play pieces of whatever songs come to mind....what really blew my mind is that he loves Rush, Robert Plant, Triumph....so we are finding new songs for our song list by....NOODLING. The new guitar player and the rest of the Berkely graduates in our band were SO OFFENDED that we were playing parts of songs together that were not being dictated to us by some lofty being sent to us to make sure us lower life form minions would just do what we're told at band practice lol

As with everything there is a threshold. Noodling can be disruptive when there is a common goal at hand. Ever had a guitarist sit there and noodle at an ear piercing volume, to the point you can't hear yourself talk? This would be between takes at a rehearsal where we are trying to talk things through and put something together.

I play some things between tunes sometimes too at rehearsal. But i do it at low volume and am sensitive to the fact that at times it may be disruptive when the group is talking through a tune.

 

[gln1955]

hell i think we should start a thread on what noodling really is. The new guitar player and I, in between songs at practice play pieces of whatever songs come to mind....what really blew my mind is that he loves Rush, Robert Plant, Triumph....so we are finding new songs for our song list by....NOODLING. The new guitar player and the rest of the Berkely graduates in our band were SO OFFENDED that we were playing parts of songs together that were not being dictated to us by some lofty being sent to us to make sure us lower life form minions would just do what we're told at band practice lol

You may not think you were interfering with what they were trying to do, but they obviously did. Why would you keep noodling when you know they were bothered by it?

 

[Krakmann]

You really should not start any more bands with the guy, or call him into your bands, for starters...

 

[thekyle55]

As for the noodling, it's rude, and regardless of your feelings towards this guy - if you're noodling while he's talking, you're telling him that you don't give a crap about anything he's saying. You very well might not, but I wouldn't expect any respect in return. You can noodle with your volume all the way down.

You're right. It is rude, and says that you don't value what that person is saying.

And sometimes you don't, because what that person is saying has no worth, and all polite ways of getting your point across have been exhausted.

The grown-up thing to do in this situation is to simply say "Hey, let's get back to practice. We can talk about this afterwards." or "We obviously don't agree on the song, let's skip it and go to the next one. We'll talk about it later". Noodling is passive aggressive, wastes time, and dwindles respect while not exactly getting done what you want, which is to get back to practice. I'd rather use a few words and a few seconds to get back on track, rather than waste time hoping that someone gets the hint. I've played with real bands well before the internet, and I haven't had to deal with noodling in decades. Maybe I'm lucky that I get to work with people who take rehearsal seriously and respect each other.

You are lucky if you've been able to play with nothing but mature, adult people. I haven't. I haven't always been one, either.

I don't condone noodling or anything that distracts from getting stuff accomplished at practice. Stay I don't like is how there's a certain percentage of people that seem to always try to turn these threads around on the OPs, and make it into their fault. These are our bass brothers, coming here for a little support, often during times that are really painful. You wouldn't listen to your buddy talk about his bad break-up, then turn around and say, "Well, it's obvious that this is all your fault. You didn't sit her down and try to work through your issues or tell her how special she is" when the issue is the two guys at work and three at the gym that she's sleeping with.

It ain't right.

 

[jive1]

......Stay I don't like is how there's a certain percentage of people that seem to always try to turn these threads around on the OPs, and make it into their fault. These are our bass brothers, coming here for a little support, often during times that are really painful. You wouldn't listen to your buddy talk about his bad break-up, then turn around and say, "Well, it's obvious that this is all your fault. You didn't sit her down and try to work through your issues or tell her how special she is" when the issue is the two guys at work and three at the gym that she's sleeping with.

Reminds me of a time when I was at a bar watching football with my friends. I was a regular there, doing every Sunday for years. We always over-tipped, and the staff was cool with us. Then on one day, the bartender had a weird vibe and decided to change the channel of the TV that I was watching, right in the middle of the game for someone who walked in after half-time. I totally lost it. I was yelling at the bartender, the manager had to come out to calm me down, and the vibe of the place changed. My friends told me that they agreed with me that I was totally in the right. However, they also told me that I was a total d*** in the way I handled it. I was right any way you sliced it, and I didn't need to act like a little b***** to get my point across. My friends were absolutely correct. They were being supportive, calmly supporting my case and they were willing to walk out with me if need be. However, because they know me to be capable of being a much better person than I displayed that day, they called me out on by poor behavior. That's what good friends do.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

If someone is yammering, they get noodled over. It's far more polite than speaking for mind.

There's nothing polite about childish, passive aggressive behavior. If you've got something to say, you say it. If you can't do that without starting a fight, either one (or both) of you has maturity problems or you just don't belong in a band together.

 

[thekyle55]

[

There's nothing polite about childish, passive aggressive behavior. If you've got something to say, you say it. If you can't do that without starting a fight, either one (or both) of you has maturity problems or you just don't belong in a band together.

That's the main problem. Maturity. But not the OP's. If someone is ruining rehearsal time with mouth diarrhea, then feel free to noodle. 90% of you that piled on the OP would have done the same thing.

Notice that I have not said how I would have handled it, because I have no idea how I would have. I wasn't there. It might have been better, it might have been way worse. I also haven't tried to say how much experience I have and how amazing the people I play with are, because that is completely meaningless. None of you know who I am and what I do, its all beside the point.

The OP got ganged up on for something he shouldn't have. I sympathize with the situation he was in, but it has taken care of itself. I hope he learned how to avoid some crazy. And not to say "noodled" on TB.

 

[MakoMan]

I'll confess I wasn't able to read the entire thread, but I read enough to decide I'm going to give my band members a hug at our rehearsal this weekend

 

[bigswifty1]

I have a few comments for the OP:

1. Rehearsal is for getting songs together. If you're not playing the song, or discussing/demonstrating a part, don't play. For me the hardest thing in the world is to hold a musical instrument and not make a sound, so I know this can be tough.

2. The OP mentions the BL who books the gigs. For a working band, this is often *by far* the most onerous, time consuming, frustrating and generally horrible job. It's also *by far* the most important. I have lost count of the number of bands I've seen gigging who really are no better than average but are doing well because someone in the band is highly motivated and drives the bookings hard. More importantly, the person doing the bookings is the one interfacing with venues/clients so they have a good sense of what they want. I say whoever is doing the bookings gets a Big Fat Say when it comes to repertoire. And no, I don't book our gigs Thankfully

Mike

 

[two fingers]

1) The first thing you need to settle up front is that you demand some input in the band. You have spent the course of three bands in mumble grumble mode about not having any input instead of telling THEM that you require some input. Type As are not going to ASK for you input. So put on your Type A big boy pants and speak up for yourself.

2) Learn to sing....at least backups. Simply playing bass while others are doing the heavy lifting won't earn you many points when picking songs discussions come up.

3) Guitar player is a D-bag. If you guys are friends, you owe him a good talking to before walking out. "Dude, have you noticed that in all three bands you have become kind of a control freak? Seriously? Change the name or you quit? You joined an established band! You don't get to pick the name! I love ya big guy but you're getting a bad rep for being hard to work with." Done. Let the chips fall where they may.

4) One perfectionist can suck the fun out of a bar gig band. It's rock-n-roll not rocket surgery. I'm a pro in local/regional terms (not bragging......just been doing it for more than 30 years now). I show up dead ready. But even after this long I will tell somebody to pound sand if they try to take up too much rehearsal time with the "quality and direction of the band" speeches. Shut up and play.

5) Good luck with your next project. This one is about to rip a hole in the space time continuum when the DRUMMER actually FIRES the D-bag guitar player.

6) I have to jump on the bandwagon with your noodling while somebody talks. If his speeches are becoming kind of windbag-ish tell the dude to shut up and play. Even that isn't a rude as noodling while somebody is talking.

 

[jive1]

If someone is ruining rehearsal time with mouth diarrhea, then feel free to noodle. 90% of you that piled on the OP would have done the same thing.

As they say, you know the world as you know yourself. The reality is that 90% of us are not immature or passive-aggressive enough to handle conflict like that. One thing about getting older is that you have less tolerance and time for BS. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who'd rather have someone tell me it's time to move on, than have someone pulling a Mono Neon on me.

 

[Bass Viking]

Yes, you were. You deserved to be shushed. You would be sacked the very first time you uttered that sentence in any band I've ever been in.

Well, well, it looks like Mr. Ox Boris has been shushed and sacked.

 

[jive1]

More importantly, the person doing the bookings is the one interfacing with venues/clients so they have a good sense of what they want. I say whoever is doing the bookings gets a Big Fat Say when it comes to repertoire.

This.
I'll add that they are also the ones who get to hear what clients don't want. And when you do weddings or other events where they make requests, aka the ones that make money, the one interfacing with the client absolutely makes the call on repertoire.

2) Learn to sing....at least backups. Simply playing bass while others are doing the heavy lifting won't earn you many points when picking songs discussions come up.

And this.
Your singer will always limit what you can pull off. I've had plenty of songs that I would love to do that I have to shelf because the singer either doesn't have the range or timbre to pull off.

Song selection is always a source of drama. The way I've circumvented it was to come up with a 40-50 song list prior to getting a band put together. That way any prospective player can see if it's material that they know and/or wouldn't mind performing. Also, having a gimmick helps too. I like to use Duke Ellington's gimmick of paid gigs. Gigs are also good feedback on song selection.

 

[Stumbo]

I like to use Duke Ellington's gimmick of paid gigs. Gigs are also good feedback on song selection.

Yeah...gigs as a gimmick...good one...more like a business plan.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

You really should not start any more bands with the guy, or call him into your bands, for starters...

True that. But sometimes you want to move ahead and default to the players you know. And some of us have a large pool of contacts, while others don't. I've made the above mistake a couple of times, too. In fact, in my case the singer quit on us a few weeks back, dissolving the band (none of us were very much into it anymore). I have now resolved to never work with him again. Same resolve as a few years back, when he quit on us and dissolved the band ...

2) Learn to sing....at least backups. Simply playing bass while others are doing the heavy lifting won't earn you many points when picking songs discussions come up.

Now, now. A lot of singers do just that: show up and sing. Lucky to have a microphone of their own. Same with guitarists. And don't say: "But they play lead." That is a choice they made, same as us on bass. Why do bass players always feel the need to belittle themselves?

Having said that, in my favourite former band, I used to suggest a lot of songs. I played bass, and usually made the set list (they liked how I ordered the songs, so let me do it). I may have booked a gig, but I don't think so. I did sing backing vox - poorly, so often I wouldn't get a mic At one point the drummer said: "I am done suggesting songs, cos you guys never pick mine and always go with EPB's choices." We realized he was right and threw in some songs he wanted to play. They went over very well. Everyone was happy.

I miss that band