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Power struggles

unless someone has a Masters in Music ... i'd rather not have them try to tell me about chords ... having started piano at 6 , theory at 12 ...

stop noodling at practice , it's rude and wastes time ... the BL should stop the gtr players yammering .. !!

if like have a song you like , that you know could be sung and played well ... bring it up .. !
but i do agree , that those of us, who also sing lead , usually get the final say on what we'll sing ...

i was usually the BL ... i would instruct whomever was singing the song , to make their arrangement for that song .

and i totally agree with previous comments wondering why you would ask this gtrist to come play again knowing his need for control / attention .. !??

i'd let him go ... for ever ...
 
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Have not read whole thread, but note that it's likely no accident that this guitarist has developed great skills but has not been playing out, even into his 50s.

Some folks just can't get it together to play with others. It's fine to have high standards and to try to elevate the group, but you can't be a jerk about it. Your prima donna hasn't been on the shelf for so long by accident.
 
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The guitar is not a good fit, simply not. Perhaps a discussion along the lines of "We like you, we love your sound/capabilities, however whether you realize it or not your controlling attitude is holding you back and holding the band back." "It might be tough to change yet we are asking you to be more cooperative, less combative and function more as a team member." My guess is he would quit, yet if he stays it could work out well.

Or just dump him.
 
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Being controlling or domineering isn't really based on ability or experience, it's more of a personality type. I played in a band at work that was pretty welcoming and open to anyone who wanted to play. We had 3 guitarists, 3 lead vocalists, etc. Anyway, of the 3 guitarists, the one with the least ability and experience was also the one who was most annoying - always too loud, missed timing on intros and breaks, not playing parts correctly, singing backup vocals out of tune, etc. The too loud part was probably the most annoying as we would get him to turn down, but then he'd start boosting himself up louder and louder over time (on his rig, on the board, etc.). Again, this was not a virtuoso lead guitarist, this was the 2nd rhythm guitarist. He was only part of the band because he worked with us, still he had it in his head that more of him was better somehow. Fortunately, he ultimately left the company and band. My point is that he was just that way - it was his personality. Trying to figure out anything more beyond that is a waste of time.
 
As a bass player i often take the role of side man. Hence, i don't make a fuss about the material, but if i truly hate most of it i will simply leave the band. This is in more democratic bands. A group i am in now had a bass player that would fuss all the time about songs he didn't like, and made the group run through parts ad nauseum. I don't do any of that, and everybody loves me for it.

The only project i expect to have a lot of control in is one i am leading myself. If i don't own the band, i will play quite a bit of stuff i don't care for as long as the gig is paid.
 
Looks like I'm in agreement with most people here.

I would not play with this guy anymore, especially after his actions in the most recent band with the drummer band leader. I would quit the bands he is in or have him fired, depending on the rest of the bands feelings. Sure, try talking about it first. But in his 50's and never having been in a band before, he's not going to change.

And stop noodling at rehearsal! The only times notes should be coming out of your instrument are during the song or parts of the song the band is rehearsing. (Getting you amp/equipment dialed in at the beginning of rehearsal is also acceptable.) Noodling or playing while someone is talking is rude, counterproductive, and unprofessional. I'd shush you so fast! (Should disclose here, I'm a middle school band teacher)
 
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Rhetorical questions designed to get you thinking about why you want to be an entertainer (and when you join a band that intends to perform live for a roomful of people and $ is part of the deal, you are choosing to be an entertainer):

Does this band have a business model and mission statement? Do you have a target audience, or target venues that you're trying to play for? Is your audience the guys in the band and your table of wives and friends who come out and support you from a sense of duty? Or are you concerned about the entertainment of the other 90% of the people in the room as well?

What is the motivation behind the song selection? Are you picking songs that tickle the musicians in your band? In other words, are you spending the time and energy required to learn new material to please and entertain just one or two of your band mates and their wives? Or is it to please and entertain a much wider audience that could lead to more commercial success?

You mentioned $$$, so I assume you're okay with running this band like a business and making the most of it, even if that means making some sacrifices. Which sacrifice is going to get you more $$$ and more consistently? Playing the guitar player's list of pet songs? Or playing music that the majority of people in the room will appreciate?

Song selection is important, and the best bands I've been in had the audience/venue at the center of song selection and many other decisions. That way, you can't form resentments about scratching one guy's itch with a song you don't even particularly like. I'd rather scratch a roomful of stranger's itches with a song I don't particularly like and reap the commercial rewards.
 
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I reccomend you sleep with his wife. OK, not really, but do something so you can once and for all part ways and never have to deal with him again. Music is meant to be played in front of people for enjoyment - aka having fun. If someone isn't enjoyable to be around, the fun is gone, and you've missed the point of the whole thing. If they can't play in front of people, Then they're also not going to help you get where you want.
 
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1- I try to avoid butting heads with anyone at anytime. So if that happens, especially more than once with the same person I take another road. I have neither the time or interest to deal with problematic people.
2- In my band songs are chosen based on what is singable and well within the range of the singer (s) so that it can be performed well. Instrumentation is easy. Vocals are the deal breaker for every band I've ever worked with. So that determines what gets played.
3- I don't vary from that strategy and am not flexible when it comes to people who bring frustration and issues to the table.

Band mate personalities have to be compatible or it's just not worth the fight.
And, unless you are an instrumentals only band, vocals take priority over instrumentation. Everything else is gravy.
 
Pretty much what they all said before me.

Your noodling has gotta stop. Sorry. If you're fingers are uncontrollable BUT you can listen and comprehend at the same time as you noodle, then at the very least kill the volume. It would still drive me mad, but I'd accept it as a compromise.

Guitarist Guy gotta learn the hard way and get humbled a bit by it or he's gonna be a solo bedroom performer forever.

I grew up with a guitarist who was an absolutely amazing talent. But he was a control freak like no other. We were friendly (and still are), but completely incompatible working together. He's gone to LA and NY to try to make it (and he's probably got the talent to do so), but failed out of both excursions pretty miserably. Every band he's ever joined or formed has fired him or gone kaput faster than you shake a stick at. He seems to be of the mindset that his talent intimidates those he plays with, when it's his attitude that is the assassin of everything he touches. Nowadays he works as a solo artist playing acoustic shows because no one will work with him. And I still don't think he gets it. Such a waste.
 
Analysis:

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Solution:

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we don't get a vote.

for me, I either get a vote or I'm on salary.

the other night he shushed me, I was pissed.

He was right to do so. The other guys might need to work stuff out. God help you if you ever work with horns.

He's a dream guitar player

No he's not. We just fired a sax player who was as great an anyone you've ever heard, on record or anywhere. He lied, held the band back and was a pita.

Our drummer told me that guitarist is acting childish and if he continues he will get a reputation and people will not want to play with him after a while.

Exactly right. Who is the fool for working with him and expecting anything different from his rep?

because I'm there to play, not to listen to him yammer about what the correct chords are, because I already know what they are, because I did my homework

Yeah, but maybe others didn't, or needed to work out some arrangement stuff. Are you such a stud that you can't STFU and perhaps learn something?
 
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Nobody, aside from you, has ever had any problems such as these. Your experiences with these band members are utterly unique. Since we have no idea what you're talking about, there is nothing we can say that will be helpful in the slightest.

I'm afraid you're on your own. Good luck.
 
You
this might be long....I'll try to make it as short as possible. I joined a local band that was not very good with one of my neighbors who's an experienced solid guitarist. We were mostly in our 50's and had clashes with song choices so my neighbor quit. I suspected we would never find a decent guitarist but they stumbled upon a local guy who has never played out and is in his 50's, he's really an impressive player but in the band he was maybe a little bit too controlling and wanting to pick the songs and axing songs we'd been doing for a long time...I recoiled initially and kind of butted heads with him and ultimately I left because I didn't feel we were musically compatible. I told the guitarist if he left I would like to get something going wth him. He's the type of guy who learns solos and plays them with passion, plays the correct notes, has great rhythm and fabulous tone.

Anyhoo he eventually left that band and starts band #2 with a diff bass player who eventually left...so he calls me, we happened upon an incredible vocalist, a great keyboard player who sings well, and a really solid drummer. In this band he was really the BL along w/ singer who is a big talent so I just kind of learn the parts, there aren't really many songs I don't like but over time i started to feel some resentment on just a couple of the guys picking all of the songs and most of us are never asked and we don't get a vote. IMO song selection determines the direction your band will take so this is no small deal.
MEANWHILE
I was unemployed and joined another band to make more $...they needed a guitar as well so i had them try out our guitar and they loved him. This band has a really good bunch of players, the BL is the drummer who has been gigging for 30 years and very experienced. As time has gone by, our guitarist has began fighting for what I perceive to be control over songs we're going to play, and this is a trend I have now seen in 3 bands. He is relatively inexperienced but wants to control the direction of the band?! Our BL is a really good drummer, he pays for the rehearsal space and books the gigs. Anyway our guitarist also freaked out and gets very upset when he's trying to talk in practice (which is a lot) and someone is playing their instrument...the other night he shushed me, I was pissed. I've been playing for 30 years and have never in my life been shushed by a bandmate. I wasn't playing loud enough to affect anything. IMO he has control issues and can't seem to stop it. He also sent out an email that if we don't change our name at our next gig he would not play another gig with the "old" name. He's a dream guitar player but I think our drummer is more important to the band and the drummer and keys have had enough of the guy...and now...I considered him a friend but don't think I can handle any more of the controlling behavior. Keep in mind the guitarist does care about the quality of the band and wants it to be great, but the chip on the shoulder thing is wearing thin. Our drummer told me that guitarist is acting childish and if he continues he will get a reputation and people will not want to play with him after a while.

Anyway I guess I'm wondering if any of you have been through this and if I'm being too intolerant of this guys.
Half way thru..
& you're rite, way to long !
Thanks alot dude Now I'm Yarning on a Friday night rite before a gig!! :(
 
Pretty much what they all said before me.

Your noodling has gotta stop. Sorry. If you're fingers are uncontrollable BUT you can listen and comprehend at the same time as you noodle, then at the very least kill the volume. It would still drive me mad, but I'd accept it as a compromise.

Guitarist Guy gotta learn the hard way and get humbled a bit by it or he's gonna be a solo bedroom performer forever.

.

guys, this thing is not about noodling, I was playing a part of another song w/ the drummer...we were 30 feet away from the yapper.....