Power struggles

[EddiePlaysBass]

Now, I don't know if anyone addressed the noodling ...

 

[two fingers]

True that. But sometimes you want to move ahead and default to the players you know. And some of us have a large pool of contacts, while others don't. I've made the above mistake a couple of times, too. In fact, in my case the singer quit on us a few weeks back, dissolving the band (none of us were very much into it anymore). I have now resolved to never work with him again. Same resolve as a few years back, when he quit on us and dissolved the band ...



Now, now. A lot of singers do just that: show up and sing. Lucky to have a microphone of their own. Same with guitarists. And don't say: "But they play lead." That is a choice they made, same as us on bass. Why do bass players always feel the need to belittle themselves?

Having said that, in my favourite former band, I used to suggest a lot of songs. I played bass, and usually made the set list (they liked how I ordered the songs, so let me do it). I may have booked a gig, but I don't think so. I did sing backing vox - poorly, so often I wouldn't get a mic At one point the drummer said: "I am done suggesting songs, cos you guys never pick mine and always go with EPB's choices." We realized he was right and threw in some songs he wanted to play. They went over very well. Everyone was happy.

I miss that band

I don't deal in what should be....rather what is. And the reality of the situation is that if you don't sing, or play a lead instrument, you get less say in the song choices. Is that "right" or "fair"? I don't give a crap. It just is.

Maybe if you book some shows, handle the social media, own the band van or whatever you can skate into the conversation. But just showing up and playing bass or rhythm guitar and nothing else will ultimately get you knocked down a few places in the pecking order when it comes to song choices. Again, it just is whether it's right or not.

 

[Steve]

just a couple personal observations:

I never had any real luck or felt much comfort picking songs for other people to sing. It doesn't much matter if you are just goofing around but, if you are trying o get something done, a good singer does noticeably better if they believe in the song. They pick the songs that speak to them. I can't do that for them.

Trying to communicate at a rehearsal while there is a bunch of background noise, even though the people making it never think it's "all that loud" is one GIGANTIC discomfort in gluteus maximus.

THAT..is practicing at rehearsal. There is a difference. I'd shush you too if I was talking about anything that mattered and not just how someone did on the back 9 last weekend

IMHO

The rest of all that other stuff...that's you wanting to control his behavior just like he want's to control yours. I'm more of a like it, lump it or leave it kind of guy. Teaching pigs to sing is not my strong suit and my record of success in that regard is abysmal. I stopped making myself miserable in the pursuit of fun long ago

 

[Bass Viking]

I don't deal in what should be....rather what is. And the reality of the situation is that if you don't sing, or play a lead instrument, you get less say in the song choices. Is that "right" or "fair"? I don't give a crap. It just is.

Maybe if you book some shows, handle the social media, own the band van or whatever you can skate into the conversation. But just showing up and playing bass or rhythm guitar and nothing else will ultimately get you knocked down a few places in the pecking order when it comes to song choices. Again, it just is whether it's right or not.

Really? While I do agree that vocalists do have more say, I figure song selection clout has more to do with power structure within the band and who is more forceful, not the instrument. And while a rhythm guitarist may be expendable and non-essential, a bassist is not.

Let's not forget that laziness also determines what songs get played. Some musicians resist learning new material and will stick with what they already know.

 

[two fingers]

Really? While I do agree that vocalists do have more say, I figure song selection clout has more to do with power structure within the band and who is more forceful, not the instrument. And while a rhythm guitarist may be expendable and non-essential, a bassist is not.

Let's not forget that laziness also determines what songs get played. Some musicians resist learning new material and will stick with what they already know.

Again, I never said what was logical or right. I simply stated what IS in my experience.

 

[jive1]

Let's not forget that laziness also determines what songs get played. Some musicians resist learning new material and will stick with what they already know.

That is sometimes the case. Sometimes, it's a person's limitations. As a bass player, I can play just about anything, in any key. As a singer, I can do about 15% of what I can do on bass and if I'm playing bass at the same time, it's even less than that. A good singer can nail about 50% of what I can do on bass. And it takes a phenomenal, one in a million singer to do every style and song I can do on bass and I'm not a one-in-million bass player. There's many folks way better than me out there.

As a BL, I would love to indulge my players, but other than having fun at practice it's not always feasible. I'd love to have the bassist play some Rush, but there's no way I'm going to nail Geddy's parts ever. My range won't let me do it with my natural voice. Singing Geddy in a falsetto sounds like crap. Singing an octave lower sounds like a hack. Adjusting the key to the song might make it even more difficult for the guitarist or bassist, as well as messing with open strings and chord voicings. Thus, even though it would be awesome to play some Rush, someone else has to sing it other than me. If there's no-one else who can do it, we have to scrap it no matter how much the bassist (or even I) would love to do Red Barchetta.
I might have a guitarist that really loves Metallica, and I love it too. I'd love to jam out on some old school Kill Em All or Ride the Lightning. But, it doesn't fit what we're doing. Unless someone specifically requests it for their wedding, we're not going to be doing the song even though I would be totally stoked to do it. It's not going to fit with our standard set. Even Enter Sandman is a stretch.

Now, if you're just a bunch of folks in the garage playing for fun, then sure let everyone get a vote and pick songs. If I sound like crap singing it, who cares, we're just having fun anyway. But once it becomes a business where money is involved, then things change and the democratic process may not be as effective.

 

[Bass Viking]

Again, I never said what was logical or right. I simply stated what IS in my experience.

Fair enough, although you were stating it like it was fact (first time I've seen the words in my experience).

 

[Bass Viking]

That is sometimes the case.

I was thinking of your excellent thread about lazy musicians:
The Real Reason Why Bands Play the Same Old Tired Covers

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Again, I never said what was logical or right. I simply stated what IS in my experience.

Fair enough - our experiences differ on this point. I have to say it also depends on the band, in my case. The one I mentioned was a blues band and I picked songs that fit the idiom but also fit what we as a band wanted to do (i.e. blues with jazz and rock influences). Some were dropped because we didn't make em sound good, some cos the singer could not sing them. No biggie.

A few years later I was in a pop band with a definite band leader, who did most of the work. I again suggested songs which made sense given the type of band we were (i.e. Pharrel's at-the-time hit songs "Happy") but he went with a Doobie Brothers song instead. I realised this was HIS band and HIS vision, so I shut my mouth and did not suggest anything going forward.