Preamp pedals & amp EQ

[burgerdj]

If it sounds good, it is good. If you can get the tone you want with minimal fuss, it will be much easier to keep that tone in various playing circumstances. Simple is often better.

 

[ga_edwards]

You're both right. But I wouldn't be too hasty to ignore the possibilities that the amp's eq offers.

For example...
Use the pedal eq to dial in "your tone".
Use the amp eq to compensate for environmental anomalies a.k.a. tune for the room

On the other hand. The M80 is just an alternative preamp with a different voice compared to the amp's onboard preamp. You could do well to plug the pedal straight into the amp's fx return, completely bypassing the amp's preamp section.

Or, on the other, other hand! Use both. You could use an AB splitter to switch between the M80 and the amp's preamp on the fly for two different voicings. Essentially creating a two-channel amp.

 

[jlo95]

However, I personally use the EQ options I have before I hit the amp to sculpt a signal that will have the vibe I am aiming for, and which will sound good through FOH.
The amp EQ is what I use to marry the cabinet to the room.

This is how I do it as well. I use the pre-amp pedal on my board (JHS Colour Box) to send the tone I like to FOH and to my in-ears. Then, if there's an amp in the room, I use it primarily as a monitor for me and the drummer. The EQ on the amplifier is tweaked to be a good monitor for us. Like agedhorse said:

Often, amps are nowhere near flat with the knobs at 12:00.

Then, the pre-amp on my instrument stays "flat" and I only adjust it if I need last minute tone sculpting on the fly. AKA, to triage a situation.

 

[corvette_br]

I prefer the sculpting results of my bass' active preamp over my amp's. Especially the bass knob.

 

[waveman]

Whoever the bassist is that said that is an idiot or a "purists" of some sort. I don't care how long he has played or respected he is.

No matter how you set the tone knob on the amp and use them. They are still there to be used if wanted. The pedal just adds extra tone options.

 

[monsterthompson]

I’d guess nobody is showing up to watch you sculpt your tone mid set or between songs. If it’s working then it’s working. But since turning knobs costs you zero dollars (though some time) you could always experiment pretty easily at practice/rehearsal and go back to the settings you like if nothing improves. If nothing else, you’ve learned a little more about how the tools you have interact.

I don’t know the specifics of the devices in use, but it’s quite possible they have different EQ frequencies with different behaviors.

 

[logdrum]

Even if you kept the amp EQ "flat", outboard preamps can boost the signal and affect how the primary input (be tube or op-amp) behaves. Sometimes that brings in wonderful results. If the bass amp has some sort of clipping light, follow the manufacturer's direction on what that light means.

 

[jthisdell]

I have a TH500 which has a very low Bass eq point and a Broughton Messenger with a higher point. It is nice to have both. Just don't turn both all the way up.

 

[agedhorse]

Whoever the bassist is that said that is an idiot or a "purists" of some sort. I don't care how long he has played or respected he is.

No matter how you set the tone knob on the amp and use them. They are still there to be used if wanted. The pedal just adds extra tone options.

Idiot or purest is kind of a strong word to use imo, there are good arguments for and against depending on how they are used and the tone goals desired.

 

[Wasnex]

said I'm essentially depriving myself of tone-sculpting options quite unnecessarily

Just because the controls are available does not mean you need to tweak them. However, just because you set the controls to noon does not necessarily mean they are taken out of the circuit or set to flat. So most likely you are still using the controls.

IMHO a better approach would be to experiment to see if adjusting the controls improves your sound. Perhaps controls at noon will sound best, and perhaps it won't.

The signal path varies from one model of amp to the next. With some amps you can bypass most or all of the preamp by plugging into an Effects Return or Aux In.

 

[waveman]

Idiot or purest is kind of a strong word to use imo, there are good arguments for and against depending on how they are used and the tone goals desired.

I get it, but there is nothing subtractive when you add two tone stacks together unless they somehow negate each other.

 

[agedhorse]

I get it, but there is nothing subtractive when you add two tone stacks together unless they somehow negate each other.

There absolutely can be subtractive effects, it’s a common issue when adding two Fender style tone stacks for example.

 

[bigtone23]

If the amp sounds good, it's good.
If the preamp before the amp sounds good, it's good.
There are no rules, just the goal of achieving what works for the player.
I rarely use a preamp before my amps, but when I do, I tend to use the amp's EQ to adjust to the room and/or cab.

 

[waveman]

There absolutely can be subtractive effects, it’s a common issue when adding two Fender style tone stacks for example.

I think you are referring to frequencies and I am referring to options Since it's a pedal, it can be turned on and off, which adds options to your EQ stack incl;uded with the amp. Anything you put between your guitar and amp can be subtractive frequency wise.

 

[agedhorse]

I think you are referring to frequencies and I am referring to options Since it's a pedal, it can be turned on and off, which adds options to your EQ stack incl;uded with the amp. Anything you put between your guitar and amp can be subtractive frequency wise.

I'm talking about the stacking of the specific voicings, in the example I mentioned this is a very real thing. Options of additional eq CAN be beneficial provided the specific voicings do not conflict.

 

[GreyBeard]

If it sounds good, it is good.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Oh, I'm not worried, I'm perfectly happy with my tone, I'd just like to know if my approach goes against widely accepted practices.

Does it matter? Are you one to follow the herd?

 

[Minimalist]

Often, amps are nowhere near flat with the knobs at 12:00. I tho k what the other bass players was trying to say is that stacking different preamp voicings tends to be unpredictable and the amp’s native voicing plays into this. Sometimes the additional eq can be helpful, sometimes it can hurt.

I understand what you are saying and we should give everybody the benefit of the doubt but that's not at all how I understand somebody when they say that "you are depriving yourself of tonal-sculpting options".

 

[Zbysek]

I've got the MXR M80 and I'm quite happy with it, I don't see it leaving my board any time soon. For rehearsals, I keep the bass at 2, maybe 3 o' clock, mids at 1 o'clock and I cut the treble slightly. I keep the amp eq dead flat as I see no point in eqing my signal twice, and this approach works well for me. Last week the bassist of the band we share our practice space with said I'm essentially depriving myself of tone-sculpting options quite unnecessarily. The man is no fool, he's a brilliant bassist with years of experience and a huge collection of gear, it's fair to assume he knows what he's talking about. I on the other hand am hardly a newbie myself and more importantly I'm a firm believer in not fixing what ain't broke. I'm just curious to know what you all think, does it make any sense to eq a signal that's already been eq'd?

There's a merit in what your colleague says, IMO.

Your assumption that you can set your amp "dead flat" is likely incorrect. Most amps have certain EQ profile (which is not flat) even with all controls at noon. Furthermore, even if the controls are at noon, they are still part of your signal chain, so you are "EQing" your signal...

My personal approach is as follows: I use the pedal preamp to sculpt the signal for FOH. I use very moderate settings-touch of HPF, touch of LPF, mild boost/cut in the mids. That's it.

On the other hand, I use my amp's EQ to sculpt my onstage tone. At times I may use extreme settings-like cutting all the low end, setting LPF at 1,5 kHz, boosting high mids with 15db...depending on the room acoustics...

 

[Mastiff_5]

What @agedhorse has said, all the way through. What your bassist friend told you is true, and simultaneously not a mandate that you begin utilizing your head unit preamp EQ.
HOWEVER: That MXR M80+ is a magical little box, and I gigged with one for about 4 years. I remember a few shows we player Drowning Pool, and their bass player Scotty and I began just sharing a rig because we both heavily leaned on that pedal for flavoring our tone.
But this is @agedhorse ‘s point (and your friend’s original point: Scotty and I had a different tonal sound (even though our settings on the MXR were nearly identical), because we had different settings on the head unit’s EQ. The EQ points on the M80 played very nicely with the preamp EQ, and allowed each of us to further modify our tone.
You might play around with the preamp EQ… slowly. Add a bit more bass next rehearsal, or cut some mids - you could end up with a particular frequency (or set of frequencies, with a particular Q shape) spiked that you find especially pleasing or useful in the mix.
The hyperbole and rhetoric here onTB can get a little noisy: of course it is the case that if you have a tone you like you don’t need to modify it, and it is trivially true that if you aren’t using all the tone enhancement at your disposal that you aren’t using all the tone enhancement at your disposal. Enjoy the freedom to fiddle, and the freedom to find your perfect sound!!!
Cheers!!